Human Resources Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you so much, and thank you to the officials for being here.

Can you comment on what the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers said in respect to the workplace safety investigations that your department undertook, and their comment that a decision was rendered within three hours of reviewing the situation at Mission Institution?

[Gary Robertson]

I'd start off by acknowledging that the correctional officers as well as others, such as the food inspection officers, work in very challenging environments in the normal course of affairs, and certainly the current context makes that much more complicated. I just want to acknowledge that.

Having said that, without getting into too much detail, what I could say is that it is I think true that a decision was made three hours or so after the inspector spoke to that particular individual, but the broader picture is that the officer had done additional work and had additional interviews and interactions with other folks in that employment context. They did a complete review. Part of our process, because we're quite concerned about making sure we get it right in COVID in particular, is that there's always a program adviser—someone separate and apart from the officer—who provides them with advice and guidance and makes sure that they've considered all the various factors that they should in the current context before they render a decision.

What I would say is that I'm pretty sure that the process was followed. I take the point that a number of folks are concerned about the outcome of that. I would reiterate the point the minister made, which is that there is an opportunity to appeal to the CIRB. In fact, what I would offer is that the Canada Labour Code was set up in part II to ensure that there was not undue political interference at any point during the process. Therefore, when the officer acts, they act on behalf of the minister, and once they have a ruling, it's considered functus.

I wasn't familiar with the term before I filled this role, but functus officio basically means once the decision's made, it is permanent unless it's appealed and overturned. The CIRB really is the right organization to approach if there's a concern about the outcome.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

Regarding personal protective equipment in federal institutions, I did write Minister Blair about certain labour issues on October 2, 2020. I have yet to receive a response, but one of the questions and one of the issues that federal union members raised with me was on the protocol around PPE. As you will note, at the very beginning of the pandemic in the spring there was not sufficient PPE in federal penitentiaries, and it was a very big problem. That's part of the reason why there was such a massive outbreak.

Have the PPE policies been updated since the spring, and what measures are available to officers to enforce the mandatory mask wearing and social distancing in common areas?

[Gary Robertson]

What I would say is that I think it's clear to a lot of people that there's been a challenge with obtaining enough PPE for the present circumstances, particularly when a lot of it is produced out of country. I do appreciate that Corrections is one of the institutions that had a challenge along with a number of others. In terms of the use of PPE, it is prescribed by the Canada Labour Code.

What I would share with folks is that when we make decisions we use the authoritative adviser organization to make those decisions. In our particular case, we've referenced the Public Health Agency of Canada, and in the absence of advice from them we would go to the World Health Organization. What I would say is that the guidance has evolved over time, but the guidance around non-medical masks, just for a technical point, is not considered to be PPE. It's considered to be a public health measure.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I want to get one more quick question in there.

I have four federal penitentiaries in my riding. There is also the need for broader public information to be made available to keep our community safe. In this instance, the Mission Institution is just a few kilometres up the road from where I am right now. There were no federal protocols in place to ensure that the decisions being made at the Mission Institution were shared with the broader community. The only avenue I had as an MP was to ask questions and go to federal officials myself and literally beg for them to communicate with the public.

How have you, as public servants in charge of labour policies, improved, or are you making improvements, to ensure that in cases where there is federal responsibility the broader public is being made aware of the decisions to ensure that they feel they're being kept safe as well? Our numbers in B.C. are only going up as it relates to COVID.

[Gary Robertson]

Thank you for the question.

Part of the Canada Labour Code mandates that every organization has the hazard prevention program and that it be kept up to date. Within the corrections context, they would have two different mechanisms to ensure that was done in collaboration with labour.

Because of the size of the organization, they would have workplace health and safety committees in the different locations. Because there are over 200 employees nationally, they'd also have an occupational health and safety policy committee. The operation of that policy committee should ensure that policies that relate to health and safety—and COVID in particular—are portable and used across the country, where they apply to multiple institutions.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm saying that, in this institution, we need to do a better job of making sure that information is disseminated. I say that in good faith, just to improve it for public awareness.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Next we have Mr. Turnbull, please, for six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I really appreciate the hard work and probably long hours you're putting in. The testament to your hard work is just being here late into the evening with us. I appreciate the conversation.

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Perlman. Could you give us an overview of how COVID-19 has impacted planned expenditures within the labour portfolio? I think that would be really helpful for all of us. What's increased and what's decreased?

[Mark Perlman]

I look at the department overall. Maybe Mr. Robertson would be able to speak more directly to the labour program itself.

[Gary Robertson]

I'd be happy to.

There are a number of pockets where programming activity has changed quite dramatically. If you'll permit, I'll just cover a few of them.

One of them is the wage earner protection program, which is a program we haven't covered yet tonight. It provides compensation to workers who were terminated as a result of being associated with a company that has gone bankrupt or into receivership. While the number of bankruptcies associated with this program are actually down slightly from the previous year, the number of individual applications have gone up. That means more large companies have gone into bankruptcy or into receivership.

[Technical difficulty—Editor] more activity there than we normally would. That particular program normally has a statutory cap of about $49 million, but we [Technical difficulty—Editor] close to $30 million compensating former employees in that capacity. We would project forward that we're likely to exceed that statutory cap, which is fine. If you meet the requirements, you get the money. There's no challenge for the individuals, but that program has grown quite a bit.

Another program is a Government Employees Compensation Act program. There, our volumes have actually gone down. Because a number of employees are working at home outside of the workplace, in the first quarter of this fiscal year we only had about 30% of our typical volume for that same period. In our second quarter, we only had about 60%. There's been a precipitous drop—if I can call it that—in the first half of this year.

If I turn to labour standards, because of the initial adjustment period, we're only at about 92% of our monetary complaint capacity. We're not far off of what it was last year. There is a fair amount of work going on there.

In our occupational health and safety area, we've actually reduced the amount of proactive work we have done historically fairly significantly. Our reactive work is still sitting at about 80%. That's driven principally based on complaints. There's quite a bit of variation through the various programs as a result of that.

In employment equity, which I didn't cover—the fifth program—we would have actually seen a delay in people submitting their reports, but we're not concerned about that.

In our international area, there's still been a fair amount of work with our colleagues in the provinces—as the minister spoke of—and also internationally. Also, our federal mediation and conciliation service is still very busy assisting stakeholders in the employment context to resolve outstanding challenges within their context.

I think that's a fairly broad coverage.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

That's really helpful.

The next question I have is related to multiple streams of funding related to business resumption.

If I'm reading it correctly, there's one through ESDC and then one through the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety. It looks to me like the one through ESDC focuses more on inspection, compliance and advice to employers.

How much has funding increased from the ESDC side? As well, how much has it increased on the CCOHS side?

[Gary Robertson]

Thank you for the question.

On the ESDC side, we did obtain a commitment for a multi-year amount for the ESDC labour program, which will total $2.5 million. In the supplementary (B)s, you'll notice almost $500,000 of that, which is the first tranche. That is because the money will come late in this year. We'll have about a quarter of full activity and then four quarters of full activity next year.

CCOHS is also about to receive $2.5 million for activities that they'll undertake nationally and on behalf of all jurisdictions. Again, they're receiving about $1.3 million of that this year, with the balance to follow in the subsequent year.

The one element that doesn't pop out to you in the estimates as they're profiled here is that Transport Canada is also receiving just short of $200,000 this year and a balance of $800,000 next year for a total of $1 million. It's to do the same type of work as the labour program, but in the three modes of transportation that they're typically responsible for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull and Mr. Robertson.

Ms. Chabot, it's your turn now.

You have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

Good evening, everyone.

You have answered some of my questions. I had some questions about the wage earner protection program.

The minister also talked about that and the extension of the deadline. I understand that this budget has a cap. Please confirm if I understood it correctly.

However, our concern is that a lot more workers may be taking advantage of it because of COVID-19. It is estimated that, in Quebec alone, 18,000 SMEs are at risk of bankruptcy, hence the bill we introduced yesterday to protect pension funds if necessary.

However, this is not what the wage earner protection program provides for.

Can you tell us how many workers have registered in the program because of the pandemic and because of bankruptcy situations this year? Were there more than usual? Do you know how many?

[Gary Robertson]

Thank you for your question.

Actually, I have the number with me. Just give me a minute.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I'll give you a minute if I don't lose a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes.

[Gary Robertson]

Okay.

I think the number is about 9,000 so far, but I'm just checking it.

I'm going to ask Ms. Baxter whether she has the exact number, but I think it's about 9,000 people.

Ms. Baxter, do I have the right number?

[Brenda Baxter, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Labour Program, Compliance, Operations and Program Development Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Yes. We've just had over 9,000 applications this fiscal year.

[Gary Robertson]

As I said, of course, if we have—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

If I understood correctly, the cap could be higher if the effects of the pandemic continue to increase the requests from these workers.

[Gary Robertson]

Yes, you understood correctly.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

I've already asked the minister my other question. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, so let me try again.

The question is about the labour funding program, which has three components. There's the health and safety component, with $2.3 billion, and there's the employment equity program component, meaning women's equity.

Are these amounts broken down by program, and is it possible to find out how much is allocated to projects that address employment equity for women?

[Gary Robertson]

Thank you again for your question.

The documentation refers to $2.3 million, and about $500,000 is earmarked for employment equity activities. In fact, now we have a big project with Ryerson University.

Ryerson is right now conducting work to the tune of about $500,000 over the life of the project, for work that is expected to inform that particular area.

Another amount of approximately $1.7 million is planned for international activities related to our obligations with our international partner. If you have more questions about this amount, Mr. Giles will be able to answer them.