Human Resources Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I want to make sure that my official confirms that.

Is that correct, Gary?

[Gary Robertson]

That is correct, yes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I represent Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon. I'm home to four federal penitentiaries. Last week, the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers said in no uncertain terms that it “deplores” Employment and Social Development Canada's “lack of transparency and seriousness when it carried out their investigations...into safety complaints related to the cases of COVID-19.”

If you're not aware, Mission was the home of the largest outbreak of COVID at any federal institution. How would you respond to my constituents and federal workers, and that description of your department?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Vis, you've raised this concern before, and I've heard you. At the end of the day, we want to ensure that every employee has a safe place to go to work, and every employee has that right. It's the employer's obligation to provide a safe work site. If employees go to the site and the work is not safe, they have the right to refuse work, and the labour program goes in and carries out an investigation. If at the end of the day it's not safe, the employer has a responsibility to make the corrections to the work site in order to make it safe.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I agree with that assessment, but in some cases, Corrections Canada employees are front-line workers that are federally regulated and can't live up to that standard, because they put their lives on the line for the protection of our community. When I hear from these guys that they don't feel safe going to their workplace, and that they're asking simply for a professional firm to clean their facility, the department should take another look.

I'm going to raise another point. They said ESDC rendered its decision on COVID-19 only three hours after hearing from officers. After hearing from front-line workers, how can it make a decision in three hours about COVID-19 safety protocols?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I hear your passion. I want to say to you that we want every worker to be safe, absolutely. In terms of this particular issue, my understanding is that the labour program goes in and makes that assessment.

I can turn to my officials to see if they have any specific details on this particular case and the allegation you're making that you don't—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It's actually not an allegation. Everything was written in their press release, which was published in the Mission City Record on November 19. Those are not my words. Those are the words of federal employees. They say that your department lacks transparency. They deplore the actions of your department and say that you're not taking their health and safety seriously.

Are you willing to come to Mission to meet with Derek Chin and other representatives of the union to try to get this right? I can tell you about the nightmare that those workers faced this past spring. Practically every inmate in that facility was infected, and Corrections Canada did not do a good enough job of communicating with the public. There was even a child who got COVID-19 from their parent, who was at the prison.

Do you know what? I really appreciated your testimony earlier, and I know that you meant those words you were saying. In good faith today, will you come and meet directly with those corrections officers—I don't even need to be there—to get these labour issues right? They need your leadership right now to do their job well. Can you provide that commitment today?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What I would say to you, MP Vis, is that I am going to continue to work as hard as I possibly can to ensure that every worker, in every place that's federally regulated, is safe. If there's an issue, then of course I will look into it. I will ask my officials to provide me with feedback with respect to what the concern is and what the response of the department is. Workers are entitled to a safe work site. There's a process in place—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

They're not getting it, though. They're not getting a safe workplace.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vis, we're out of time.

If you want you can finish up your answer, Minister, and then we're going to go to Mr. Vaughan.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

MP Vis, listen. I've heard you loud and clear here. The commitment I make is that we want to ensure that every workplace is safe. If there are workplaces that aren't safe, there's a process that one goes through. If there's a concern with respect to that process, I've heard you. I will take what you've said back and have a conversation with my officials. It's a right that exists. It exists in the Canada Labour Code. Every worker has a right to a safe workplace, and no worker—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

But it's not applied.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

—is forced to work in an unsafe site.

If you're saying to me that's not the case, then I will look into it with my officials—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It's not me. It's the federal employees.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I thank you for your input and for your passion.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I thank you for the exchange. It was actually very productive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

The final questioner for you, Madam Minister, is Mr. Vaughan, please, for five minutes.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Mr. Chair, thanks very much.

Good evening, Minister. I just wanted to check in to make sure we're clear on this. The training money that was set aside to create new personal support workers doesn't fall within your ministry, but because you're part of a quartet of ministers in similar departments, your officials may be able to get us answers to that question.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

That's absolutely right. I have no jurisdiction over that particular funding. Absolutely, we work together as a government, as a cabinet. We make decisions, and we have discussions. The support for this particular group is one that we absolutely want to ensure is there.

With respect to the actual oversight of the training and development and the money that's set aside, that's not my portfolio. That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Does your ministry work with the provinces to develop the labour force agreements that prioritize immigration patterns across the country to try to meet key labour shortages? Is that one of the things your ministry—

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

No, that again is Minister Qualtrough.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of taking a look at, for example, how in 2019 Quebec focused on bringing in artificial intelligence experts and high technology experts, as opposed to fast-tracking personal support workers, that would be the work of Minister Qualtrough, if that decision is to be made.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

That is correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of the issues that were raised by MP Vis about a complaint from front-line workers in an employment setting—in this case a penitentiary—in terms of those investigations, is there an appeal process to a complaint?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I would like Gary to confirm, but my understanding is that the Canadian Industrial Relations Board, CIRB, handles the appeal process.