Human Resources Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2020

[Marcel Lawson-Swain]

Absolutely. That's a really good question.

I want to go back to my opening comments when I said that Lu'ma began 40 years ago as an urban native non-profit housing society. We did that under section 56.1 of the National Housing Act. At that point we quickly realized that we needed to have far greater resources than what we were given by CMHC to do the work we were doing, whether those were wraparound services or economic benefits. We all talk about economic reconciliation as part of the work we're currently doing.

When I first started, I named the number of companies I represent. All those companies, by the way, are owned by Lu'ma Native Housing Society. The one we take pride in recently is the Lu'ma Development Management Company, where we provide development services to the broader indigenous community for social-purpose real estate. Currently we're in the process of building almost half a billion dollars of social-purpose real estate throughout the province of British Columbia. We've only been in existence for three or four short years.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

What is social-purpose real estate, if you don't mind defining that for the committee?

[Marcel Lawson-Swain]

Generally, it's any project that has social benefit or social purpose. It could be social housing, affordable housing. It could be an office building, but the intent and purpose of that building is to provide social services. Anything with a social benefit for the broader community is what we propose and what we work on.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. McGee, you also have a social enterprise operating. I think it's a furniture bank, is that correct?

[Susan McGee]

Yes, that's correct: Find is separately branded, separately operated, and provides furniture at no cost to community members who are experiencing homelessness, getting into housing. It allows them to shop for the furniture they're getting, that is donated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. McGee.

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

My question goes to whoever wants to answer it. We have talked a lot about realities in terms of housing, of course, but here is what I would like to know.

As you see it, are there any specific realities that affect seniors in terms of housing, homelessness or other difficulties?

[Chief Ralph Leon Jr.]

That's a really good question. Our matriarchs and patriarchs here in Sts'ailes are long outliving their sea island homes—their CMHC homes—that were built in the sixties and seventies. It's just not working. With the system now with ISC—Indian Affairs—we need to revisit the reno monies, the RRAP monies and all of those kinds of programs that happen. I believe it's not working. We need the block funding just sent to communities.

[Susan McGee]

If that question was to all, I would only add one really quick response.

In this environment, particularly with homelessness, there are two things.

The actual experience of a person who's had a long life of homelessness really is analogous to a senior at 45 or 50 years of age. When we talk about seniors in our work, it varies.

The other thing is that in planning for housing and these supports, we often have have-nots amongst the have-nots. We really need to be intentional in prioritizing our resources. Once we get to community-level decision-making, we can, unfortunately, put the needs of seniors against the needs of, in some cases, individuals with significant mental health issues and a long life experience of addiction.

Both of those populations very much warrant support, and I would never oppose investment in seniors housing, but we really need to avoid putting those needs up against each other.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. McGee.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Gazan, you get the last word. You have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I like getting the last word.

My last question is for Mr. Ward. One of my first teaching jobs was as an administrator for an adult-ed program on a first nation. I had to write so many proposals for little chunks of money, and for those little chunks of money, the amount of human resource hours I had to spend.... To get $5,000 I would have to, for example, write four follow-up reports.

This is my question for you. How does proposal-based funding negatively impact the ability of indigenous organizations or institutions to address housing and homelessness in a meaningful way that is both long-term and sustainable? I say that because I know, particularly in indigenous communities, that it's year-to-year funding, so it's hard to develop long-term housing plans when you don't know what's going to happen year to year.

I'll let you respond to that.

[Matthew Ward]

Sure. I'll be short, because I think the answer is pretty clear. It's a huge barrier.

I think it's part of the value add. As Susan had mentioned for Homeward Trust, a lot of these organizations that are really relied on to deliver these services have demonstrated they can do it. The need to annually revisit their ability to do that pulls away from their ability to focus on the work that needs to happen.

I think I will just keep it short and leave it there.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just very quickly, I know that with a lot of housing stock on reserve, even when we have houses built we often don't get money to fix our existing housing stock, so we're constantly in a crisis. We get a new house, but we have one house that isn't usable.

What is needed to address this, which I know is a huge issue, in regard to funding and sustainable funding so that we can develop long-term plans in our nations?

[Matthew Ward]

I don't know if I'm the best person to answer that question. While I have experience with on-reserve housing in my personal experience, professionally I work in the context of an urban environment in proposal writing.

That might be a better question for Chief Leon, Jr.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Chief, please be very quick, if you can. You actually get the last word.

[Chief Ralph Leon Jr.]

Thank you for the last word.

This is of high importance for us. We have a mental health team here that tries to look after a lot of those issues. We have a [Inaudible--Editor] group here that we also work with, where we can focus on those with any issues. We try to get on them, if it's from the education department, housing department, or children and family, and try to work it all together so that it all works for the individual or the family.

That was a good question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Chief.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Thank you to all of the witnesses, first for hanging around and waiting for us and then for being so patient and so comprehensive in your answers this evening. We very much appreciate it. It will greatly aid the work we're doing here.

Colleagues, the support team from the House of Commons—the clerk, the analysts, the translators, the people in the room—have put in some extra time to allow us to have such an excellent meeting. We don't say this often enough: Thank you.

Colleagues, I think we're ready to adjourn. Is there anything else anyone needs to raise?

[Marcel Lawson-Swain]

Can I just add one comment to Madame Chabot's comment about seniors?

I think it's really important to recognize something when dealing with seniors. From my own experience, I can tell you about my mother-in-law. She was in residential school, and because she is not in a special seniors program for indigenous people, she finds herself in a place where she feels like she's back at residential school again. So she starts her life out that way and she has to end her life that way.

I think Canada needs to do more for seniors and indigenous people in that regard. We need some specific indigenous seniors programs.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Lawson-Swain. That is a sobering and thoughtful note to end on.

Thank you, colleagues.

We are adjourned.