Yes, I am being assertive and fairly aggressive here because you have families.... “Parents are giving up their jobs as hundreds remain stuck on day care wait lists in” Newfoundland and “B.C. mother says lack of child care could leave her homeless”. These are the articles that I have in three days. Families are in chaos and distress, and, through you, Mr. Chair, I will ask one last time, and I just want an answer, Minister, on behalf of the parents and families that you say you represent and to whom you want to offer fairness.

These operators are closing down. Please, with all due respect, answer them directly: Why are you not allowing provinces that are asking you in desperation—and your own Liberal MPs, who say they want you to—to include private operators? Why are you not doing that?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri.

Madam Minister, I'll give you the opportunity to respond.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

The agreements that were negotiated with every province and territory are intended to build a public system, a public system in which, as I mentioned, 750,000 families are benefiting from to date. By the time these agreements finish in 2026, we'll have seen 250,000 new spaces created. At no point in history have we ever seen the expansion or the creation of spaces at this scale, and what does that translate to? That translates to more families being able to return to the workforce.

Thank you, Chair.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Ferreri and Madam Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Coteau for six minutes, please.

May 9th, 2024 / 9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the Minister for joining us today.

Minister, I want to start by saying congratulations. The child care plan in my home province of Ontario and across this country is really revolutionary, and it has taken decades of talk for many different governments to get to this point. You're the minister responsible for a file that's really changing lives in this country, so I want to say thank you and congratulations.

In my home province of Ontario, there have been some challenges. I've met with stakeholders, including parents, folks from organized labour and people who work within the sector—providers—and the big challenge they have is that Ontario seems to not be fulfilling its end of the agreement. In fact, I read an article back in February that talked about how if you compare when the Ford government took power to now, there's $85 million less being spent on child care by that very government. To make things even worse, the $10 billion plus that has been allocated to the province is not being spent on the specific file.

Is Ontario fulfilling its end of the bargain and is the money being spent in the province?

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

I also am a member of Parliament here in Ontario, and I can certainly attest to the fact that....

First of all, it's important to note that the Province of Ontario, as every province did, signed on to this five-year agreement with expectations and outcomes that they're accountable to achieve in order to, of course, continue to work with us and receive the funding that we are providing. It is a partnership, and we do need to work together to make this successful, but ultimately, child care is provincial jurisdiction. When our colleagues point out some of the challenges, I implore us to continue to work with the province and to work with the respective MPPs in your area to raise these challenges.

You're very right that in Ontario we funded $10.2 billion over five years. In the most recent year, as our funding does increase year over year, it increased by 17%. We're seeing that the Province of Ontario has not yet entered into a long-term funding formula with the operators here on the ground in Ontario. In fact, this is very much stifling the operators' ability to consider adding spaces and consider growing, which is what we need.

The work that I continue to communicate, as I know many of my colleagues do as well, is that we need a province that is willing to fulfill their commitments and to work collaboratively to ensure that these spaces are created. Here in Ontario there is a commitment by the province to create 86,000 new spaces by 2026. We need to get to work. Already, admittedly, it is changing lives here in Ontario. Families are saving on average $8,500 each and every year per child. I get to speak to families across the country and here in Ontario. The stories are incredibly impactful about what this translates to in young families' lives with these savings. We've seen in Ontario 300,000 kids benefiting to date.

We need to keep pursuing and doing the work to ensure that those spaces get created and that Ontario gets a funding formula in place that works for operators.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you so much, Minister, for that answer.

Again, these programs are national. They're new. No government in recent decades has brought forward new national programs at this rate. The student nutrition program for this country is a huge game-changer. When we have young people going to school who don't have the right type of nutritional value in their food, it can affect their behaviour. It can impact their cognitive abilities. It can impact performance and attention.

When you're out there talking to people in this sector, what are the biggest gains we'll make by having a program like this nationally across the country?

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

I think you're absolutely right. As we are moving forward with this national school food program, we will see an additional 400,000 children receive food at school. What does that mean? What does that translate to? That means kids are able to focus on what they should be focusing on. They can focus on learning and focus on their social interaction, having lunch with their friends.

I recall a recent conversation here in Ontario with a teacher who was sharing how a little boy in her class is always off to the side at lunchtime. He doesn't have a meal to eat and he's embarrassed. He misses out on not only, obviously, the health and well-being of being well fed and being able to learn. He also misses out on the social interactions, being able to sit with his friends at lunch and have conversations and form friendships.

There are incredible gains. Obviously, when we invest in our children, we're investing in our future. The national school food program is poised to ensure that our kids are set up for success.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you, Minister.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Madam Chabot, go ahead for six minutes.

9:40 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, good morning to you and to the members of your team.

Welcome once again to the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

I can’t help but give a little context when I hear about Canadian policy on day care services. As we’ve often said in the Chamber, it is a matter of societal choice. Indeed, it’s complicated for the federal government to tell the provinces to create day care spaces, because that choice belongs to the provinces. It’s up to them to manage training for day care workers, set ratios and decide whether services will be public or private. Every province makes choices, and some provinces never made the choice that Quebec did over 25 years ago. Quebec is a leader.

When the federal government says that creating day care spaces is good for families and for women’s return to the labour market, it is correct. That’s also the model we created for ourselves. If some aren’t satisfied with what’s happening at home, all they have to do is make the same choice and invest in this model. It’s a social program. The federal government is imposing a model, but the federal government won’t be the one to create a universal day care policy.

You said the system helped 750,000 children since its inception, but I would imagine you’re including Quebec in there, which we shouldn’t do.

If we exclude Quebec, how many spaces were created?

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Thank you very much for your question and for your work.

You are correct in stating all of what you've said, in that Quebec is very much a leader. Quebec had a lot of success with the work that was done more than 25 years ago in creating the system there, and we've looked at the successes in Quebec as we've built out this system. In particular, you see the impact on women's participation in the workforce in Quebec and all that that has been able to accomplish.

The numbers that I quoted, 750,000 children and their families that have been able to access the system, does not include Quebec.

9:45 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I want to know how many spaces were created outside Quebec.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

That is a number that does not include Quebec.

As I'm sure you know, our agreement with Quebec is an asymmetrical agreement, and we do not have that data to include.

9:45 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

I just wanted to make sure that it didn’t include Quebec.

As you said, services for families fall under the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces, just like education. However, you want to set up a $1 billion school food program. I think you even announced it in your election platform. You’re implementing it now, but you know that in Quebec, food programs for children in school have been in place for a few years already. That’s because it is in fact up to Quebec and the provinces to set up those kinds of programs. We can bemoan the fact that there are children in need, you’re right, but the federal government decided to give the provinces a helping hand there, even though that falls outside its jurisdiction.

Within the framework of the bill we are going to study later, will you recognize the same thing, meaning that Quebec is a leader in this area, and respect its right to opt out with full compensation?

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Thank you for your question.

We are quite fortunate when you look across the provinces. There are a number of provinces that have done some great work when it comes to school food within the province.

I looked at P.E.I. when I had a chance to visit not that long ago, and they have an incredible system on the island in which children are receiving hot food for lunch each and every school day.

Having said that, when we are proceeding, obviously, with the national school food program, we will be entering into agreements similar to what we have done with the early learning and child care with each province and territory. That work has not yet begun for obvious reasons as we move forward with the budget, but we will engage in those conversations in the near future.

Thank you.

9:45 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

My question was rather simple. Measures already exist in Quebec. I don’t know if the other provinces have any, but if they do, so much the better.

You decided to provide support in a sector that falls under provincial jurisdiction. Education definitely falls under Quebec’s and the provinces’ jurisdiction. It was therefore not a matter of collaborating.

Are you ready to say that your bill will include the right to opt out with full compensation?

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Those discussions obviously will transpire in the coming months and over the summer with an aspiration of reaching agreements very quickly, as we'd like to ensure that children are able to have access to food at school as quickly as possible.

Again, I respect the comments, and would agree that Quebec has done some great work, but we'll enter into those discussions in the near future.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Mr. Angus, you have six minutes, please.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Certainly New Democrats have been very supportive of a national school program. We know in our regions children who go to school without food. Right now 31.5% of children in Kenora are living in poverty. Those children are not getting proper food to go to school and nurture their brains.

What concerns me is that you've mentioned a couple times your figure of 400,000 students. Where did you come up with that number?

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

Undoubtedly, I think, we all agree that ensuring that kids at school have access to healthy and nutritious food is incredibly important. The number that you're referring to, the 400,000, is an estimate based on the work that's already under way in provinces and territories. There are various programs and groups, whether it be Breakfast Clubs of Canada or healthy school food coalitions, doing this work already, so there is some data that has been accessed in order to give us grounds, as we look at a billion dollars and at the school-age population across the country, to decipher that we expect that it will be approximately 400,000 additional children over and above those already receiving food supports at school.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Right now there are over three million children in kindergarten to grade 8. The 400,000 would fit the cohort of grade 6 and nobody else.

My question is about whether or not this will be a stopgap. What about regions that are doing programs and paying for them and then a nearby region isn't? Are you going to compensate? Is this going to be a universal program or is this a series of stopgap measures?

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Jenna Sudds Liberal Kanata—Carleton, ON

You're quite right; approximately $200 million across the country is being spent currently by provinces and territories in school food programs. You could expect, obviously, as we roll out our contributions to that, that we would expect the current levels of investment by provinces and territories to be maintained and that our dollars are additional, to increase the number of children who will be reached.

All of that is to say that we fully expect that as we enter into these agreements with provinces and territories, ultimately it will be up to the provinces and territories how they administer on the ground within their province. We will be moving forward with a policy that's informed by consultations that happened over the last few years and then, of course, negotiating those agreements with respect to the financial contributions as well.