Human Resources Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have already answered the question regarding fields of jurisdiction. As well, I do not believe that our government has no expertise in education and health, for example, in Canada.

Regarding the overlap you are talking about, I do not agree. For example, in New Brunswick, there are programs of the same type but, unfortunately, the provincial government decides which school will receive funds and which school will not. My bill—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you not think it is precisely the provincial government's responsibility to decide?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In fact—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Answer me seriously.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

—as a federation, in my opinion, the role of the Government of Canada is precisely to help the provinces and territories achieve their goals. That is exactly what we are going to do by giving the provinces and territories a bit more money, by collaborating with them, and by ascertaining what their needs are.

In New Brunswick, for example, if the provincial government can help only 50,000 children, but the federal government can contribute—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Are you going to tell the provincial government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Chabot, you are interrupting.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

—to choose one school instead of another? That is ridiculous, Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, that is absolutely not what I am saying. I am kind of seeing the lack of collaboration there might be with any government of Canada for coming up with a program like the one we want to put in place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Gazan, you have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, I am very happy about the bill. We are in an affordability crisis. I want to frame that in a way that I know we will still need a school food program. We know that.

Do you agree that we need to start going after big grocery chains with an excess profit tax to assist with the affordability crisis?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, yes, I agree, and this is why I think the government took steps on this. Maybe it's not going as quickly as everybody wants it to. However, at the end of the day, regarding all of this, we need to put forward this kind of framework. We need to put this school food program in place.

We can work on many files at a time, but if we just say, “Let's deal with that part and not with this part,” we're not going to achieve anything. I agree with my colleague. This is why our government took steps with big grocery chains. I hope we will see results in the near future.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you for that.

Through you, Mr. Chair, we hear a lot about the carbon tax. We don't hear anything about the climate emergency, and the costs of the climate emergency and not dealing with it, including the costs and potential threat to food security.

Do you believe that your government has done enough to deal with corporate greed?

For example, on the price of gas, why aren't we going after the big oil and gas companies that are gouging consumers at the pumps? Why aren't we going after grocery CEOs who are gouging people at the cash register?

Do you believe your government has done enough? I don't think negotiating with corporations gets you anywhere. Do you think your government needs to be forceful to deal with corporate greed?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, to my colleague, even if I am part of a government that does wonderful things for families across Canada, I think we can do more. As I said, we took steps with big grocery chains. We also took steps to make sure that big oil corporations will not receive any more funding in the coming years.

At the end of the day, I want my government and all of us around this table to think about what we can do to help families. What we can do to help families is put in a program like this one, or others that we have put in place—and thanks, again, to the NDP for their support on my bill. However, yes, we need to do more to make sure that families have a bit of relief. This is the kind of example that can give families relief.

We all know the carbon tax is not the only reason that everything is going up in the world. There are other reasons. I think everybody should look at the data, instead of just saying things out loud that are not true.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Mr. Aitchison, you are next for five minutes, and then Mr. Fragiskatos will have five minutes to conclude the first hour.

Mr. Aitchison, you have five minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I've been listening to this discussion with Mr. Cormier, who I have no doubt means very well. I suspect he's quite passionate about his bill and cares a lot about making sure that children in this country are well fed and can learn. To Ms. Chabot's point, I don't think anybody would argue with the goal of making sure that every child in this country doesn't go to school hungry. I think that's just common sense.

However, as I listen to the debate, particularly my good friend and colleague Mr. Long, who rants about how the Conservatives vote against this and vote against that, and to my colleagues here who are talking about the everyday expenses of life and how things are definitely getting more expensive in part because of things like the carbon tax, I keep coming back to this point of all the programs that Mr. Long mentioned. This government announces with great fanfare all these programs.

I'll start with the 2017 national housing strategy as an example. It was going to be life-changing and transformational. Of course, the transformation has been that house prices have doubled, and rent has doubled and you can't find a place to rent. Then they come out with their child care program. It's a really good talking point: It's $10-a-day child care, and if you don't support that, then you hate children, because “we're Liberals and we're great”. We hear about child care centres all over the country that can't afford to deliver the program with this subsidy that the federal government has come up with. “We're going to hire more bureaucrats. We're going to tell provinces how to do things. We're going to help them out by paying half the cost”, but they never really do that. Then there's the dental care program. I've talked to dentists who say they can't afford to deliver the service based on what the federal government's telling them they have to do.

To Ms. Chabot's point, this is another situation, this food program in schools, where you have a federal government, an activist Liberal government, that is really, really good at the naming of programs. They're really good at the photo ops and the talking points, and as they meddle in provincial affairs, they get nothing done. This is a framework to come up with a plan to do something in provincial responsibility that probably will never actually occur.

To me, this is one of those examples of a government that yet again is meddling in provincial affairs and is at the same time ignoring their own responsibilities. The federal government has responsibilities to deal with fiscal issues. The fact that interest rates are as high as they are right now is in part because of the excessive borrowing and spending of a government that says they're fixing things, but are actually just making it worse. While we meddle in provincial affairs here at this level and we spend our time talking about this framework, or the plan to make a framework that will ultimately one day maybe feed a kid, we're ignoring the responsibilities at the federal level and trying to tell the provinces how they should do things.

To me, I fundamentally don't understand how a government that after nine years has promised the moon and back on so many different files and delivered so little can be so proud of their new framework on making sure that kids are fed in schools. I suspect quite strongly that Mr. Cormier didn't really plan to put forward a bill that just came up with a plan to make a plan to talk to provinces about having a plan. I suspect he wanted to do something more meaningful.

If I had one question for you, Mr. Cormier, it would be this: When your time is done here and years later we're still talking about a national food program for schools because we just created a framework that never got anywhere, how are you going to feel about that?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I hope that the people and families watching at home will listen carefully to what my colleague just said. It's unfortunate that the Conservatives think that a program like that will not help children and families. For his benefit, and I hope I have the statistics with me, the Canada child benefit probably helps a lot of kids and families in Mr. Aitchison's riding, but he doesn't want to recognize that.

I'm proud of my bill. I'm proud that we're going to help children. I'm proud that this will be one of the most wonderful programs this country will ever see.

By the way, many provinces have already come to the table and said that they want to participate in the program. The only party that doesn't want to be part of this program is the Conservative Party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison and Mr. Cormier.

We'll now conclude with Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

I am tempted, to be honest, to give a long preamble here, as my colleague just did and as the Conservatives have done today. I would take them seriously were it not for the fact—and it is a fact—that their signature policy when they were in office from 2006 to 2015 was to send cheques to millionaires.

What did we see in that time? Child poverty went up. In fact, the Canada child benefit that's already been referenced—and should continue to be referenced—is helping thousands of kids across the country. In fact, 750,000 children have been lifted out of poverty since 2015 because of that policy of this government.

I would also take the Conservatives seriously, if they had any alternative to put on the table. If they don't like this program, what do they like? Do they want to go back to giving out cheques to millionaires? It's probably exactly that, and that's why they're silent on this.

I do want to address my colleague.

First of all, I want to thank him for his advocacy. His advocacy is done, first and foremost, on behalf of his constituents. However, in doing so, he has found a way to bring light and attention to a very critical issue that affects every single constituency across the country.

In formulating the private member's bill, I know that Mr. Cormier did a lot of work. I know that he reached out and engaged in a lot of consultation within his constituency and beyond. We are going to hear from witnesses today. I'd love to hear from him about the consultation that he did. As good an MP as he is—and he's very good—I know that the bill reflects the opinion of advocates in the community that are focusing on kids, and that's a big community. I'd love to hear his thoughts on on that specific matter.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Again, there are a lot of wonderful groups in this country that do work when it comes to creating such a program.

I had the perfect example in my riding, a group called la Fondation des petits déjeuners de la Péninsule acadienne. This group went from zero and raised $1.3 million in the last five years to give money to schools. They help 15 out of 21 schools to provide meals to 5,000 children every year. This group is all volunteers. These volunteers are also parents, parents who know what families are going through. It's when you talk to those people, to teachers at school and to the school board that you understand clearly how important this is and how they need help to provide these kids with a better future and to help them achieve their goals.

There are a lot of stakeholders in the country. You will hear from them, I think, right after me. What they did as a consultation process, in making the study and everything that went on from parents to children.... It's wonderful work. We need to engage them. This is why we need them to build this framework. It is not for the government to say what this framework needs to have in it. It's from those stakeholders, those groups, the people who are on the ground seven days a week, taking care of those children and those families.

I commend them for all their great work. Of course, I learned a lot through that process, going to meetings with them and making sure that my bill reflects what they need for kids in the future.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much to my colleague again, Mr. Chair.

I represent a community that has seen very difficult economic times throughout its history. What it has going for it is resilience. What it has going for it are wonderful teachers in schools who have raised this point specifically to me and said how excited they are about the possibility of a national school food program.

One in particular who pays very close attention to this teaches grade 1 and has been following this matter for a very long time. She wanted me to thank Mr. Cormier for the work that he's done. She was aware of his private member's bill and has been for a long time. It's helped to push the government in this direction. It's also done a lot to raise attention on this vital issue.

Thank you to our colleague for his very hard work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

You are quite welcome to stay as an observer for the next hour, if you choose.

That concludes our first hour.

Committee members, we'll suspend for a few moments while we bring in the witnesses for the last hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, we will resume for the second hour.

We have witnesses with us. As an individual and in the room with us we have Brent Mansfield, elementary school teacher and co-founder of LunchLAB and the B.C. chapter of the Coalition for Healthy School Food. From Kids Against Hunger Canada, we have Carl Nabein, president and founder, by video conference. Welcome. From Mission Services of Hamilton, we have Shawn MacKeigan, associate executive director.

Each of you will have five minutes for an opening statement.

Mr. Mansfield, you can begin.

[Brent Mansfield, Elementary School Teacher, Co-Founder of LunchLAB and BC Chapter of Coalition for Healthy School Food, As an Individual]

Mr. Chair, in October, I ran 200 laps—over 92 kilometres—around my elementary school to raise awareness for the need for federal investment in school food, calling on the Government of Canada to invest the $200 million for five years they committed towards a national school food program. Then in November, five weeks later, I ran 200 laps, nearly 30 kilometres, around the lawn of Parliament to once again draw attention to the issue.

It is a real honour to be invited here today. I would like to express my strong support for Bill C-322, which is even more important now than it was when it was first tabled in March 2023 because of the federal government's recent investment of $1 billion over five years in budget 2024.

Bill C-322 would provide a necessary framework for how the federal government can work in partnership with the provinces, territories and indigenous communities to ensure the health and well-being of all Canadian children.

I urge you to support this bill for the sake of Canada's children as well as school communities and the local food economies that would benefit. I know that supporting school food is a non-partisan issue and one that everyone in a school, neighbourhood and community can get behind.

I am an elementary school teacher at a diverse urban elementary school on the unceded traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples in what is now known as the west end of Vancouver.

As a teacher, I co-founded LunchLAB, an educational lunch program that empowers grades 6 and 7 students to work with the chef in residence to prepare foods for themselves and their peers. LunchLAB makes lunch an important part of the school day for learning, rather than seeing it as an interruption.

I see the power of school programs as a teacher, which gives me the conviction and drive to advocate for all students to be able to benefit. Every week, I see up close how a school food program supports all students to thrive and learn. LunchLAB demonstrates how school food programs can support students to learn food skills, develop food literacy and improve the quality of what they happily eat at school. School food programs are indeed a social equalizer. I can see this clearly when students from diverse backgrounds sit down and share a meal.

As a passionate school food advocate, I've worked closely with the Coalition for Healthy School Food, which includes nearly 450 member organizations and endorsers in every province and territory.

I had the opportunity to be part of the founding meetings of the coalition in Halifax in 2014. Several years later, I was part of the formation of the B.C. chapter of the coalition which, through years of collective advocacy, contributed to the B.C. government investing $214 million over three years in school food programs.

The coalition has been advocating for the development of a universal healthy school food program that is cost-shared with provinces and territories, following key guiding principles based on research and best practices to ensure that school food programs live up to their full potential. These guiding principles are what unites this vast network from coast to coast, which includes non-profit school food providers, national health education and indigenous organizations, school boards, cities, municipal health boards and many others. The guiding principles are outlined in the brief submitted by the Coalition for Healthy School Food, and I encourage you to review that.

We need a national framework that is visionary and reflects the broad guiding principles laid out by the coalition and those reflected in the “What We Heard” report from the national school food policy engagements.

I was pleased to see that Bill C-322 includes ensuring that programs are in line with Canada's food guide. The food guide says that healthy eating is more than the foods we eat, which includes focusing on mindful eating, enjoying food, cooking more often and sharing meals together. School food programs are an opportunity to foster a healthy food environment and promote mental health and well-being.

In terms of the rights and priorities of Canada's indigenous peoples, indigenous communities must play key roles in designing and implementing school food programs in their communities as well as other locations where first nations, Métis or Inuit children comprise a significant portion of the student population.

In terms of fostering local and sustainable food systems, encouraging school food programs to set local and sustainably produced food purchasing targets would create jobs for Canadian farmers and support community economic development.

As a teacher, I stress the importance of promoting food education to support new school food programs to be integrated into the curriculum and to enable food literacy and experiential food skills education. Programs aren't just for students but should be conceived, designed and run with meaningful input from students. School food programs provide many opportunities for student involvement in preparation, serving and clean up, all while developing food skills.

I also support a couple of key recommendations from the coalition on what could strengthen Bill C-322.

We need a commitment to ensure there is no marketing to kids. There need to be safeguards against marketing branded or highly processed foods and beverages to children through school food programs.

We need a commitment to Canada-wide program evaluation for consistent reporting. Collecting and sharing data would help measure progress and support program design and implementation.

Last, we need a commitment to a universal program for all children. Aiming at universality is critical so that, progressively, all children in Canada can have access to this program. This bill has recognized the importance of reducing stigma. Aiming towards a universal program does that. As a teacher, I can see the benefit for all students: the opportunity for students to learn and develop the food skills and food literacy they need to thrive in life, while eating delicious and healthy food at school.

I would like to, once again, stress my strong support for this bill. I encourage you to unanimously support it. I encourage you and all political parties in Parliament to vote to pass Bill C-322 as soon as possible.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Mansfield. Your enthusiasm and passion were clearly demonstrated in your presentation.

Next is Mr. Nabein for five minutes.