Human Resources Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[Karen Moores]

Absolutely. At Easter Seals, we've said that it's almost an unfortunate perfect storm. The cost of medication is rising. The cost of food is rising. Housing is just not sufficiently available for all persons with disabilities in most markets, but it's tremendously expensive. That's coupled with the added cost of transportation—if your local city bus is or isn't available or accessible, maybe you're paying for quite an expensive accessible taxi.

Absolutely, this has been a tough time for many, and particularly for persons with disabilities.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Further to that, there are a number of federally regulated industries in Canada. I'm thinking of banking and airline travel, for example.

Ms. Moores, could you comment on these industries and what barriers exist in these federally regulated industries for persons with disabilities?

[Karen Moores]

Absolutely, and I'll start with the example of Canada's airlines.

Back in the spring, many of the witnesses here, including me, attended the first airline accessibility summit and had a chance to share our perspectives with Canada's airlines and different leaders from within government about accessibility within the air sector.

We were quite fortunate. Airlines were willing to listen. We all have a way to go, but that is just one example.

As we reimagine Canada's airports, as airports are renovated and rebuilt over the next generation, that is a consideration. There are also things that we can do today, such as airside services. There is work in all those sectors. I could probably take up all your time in talking about it.

I will say—I didn't get to this point in my notes—that I really think, no matter the sector, that it's about collaboration and communication. I'm on Zoom today, but there's nothing like being in person. I hope that the next time I'm before your committee, we're in person. Canadians are collaborative, and yes, it's about having the chance for all parties to work together—federally regulated industries, our sector, leaders like you—to make changes, absolutely.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You had two seconds. You were very kind.

Next is Mr. Coteau for six minutes in total.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both witnesses today. I appreciate the work you do, and I congratulate Easter Seals for its 100 years of advocacy and providing support for folks and continuing to build a family.

There are a lot of technological changes that are taking place around the world, technology that can be used to help people better navigate building codes that can be enhanced through technology to assist people as they move between buildings and access services. Have you seen any technology within Canada, within our jurisdiction, but also around the world, that has made major advancements into accessibility? If so, can you talk a bit about that and how Canada could benefit from some of that technology?

That's for any one of the two: Karen Moores and Karen Madho. Either one would be great.

[Karen Madho]

I will defer to my colleague.

[Karen Moores]

Thank you.

There are many great technologies. The second part of my notes was on Canada's innovators.

We are a country of great innovation and ingenuity. I will not do diligence only to some and not to others by using names, but I'm happy to provide the committee a list of technologies from among our members, keeping in mind that we represent all disabilities and all ages across the country and that there are different technologies that help different aspects and different disabilities. I'm happy to provide that to you.

Around the world, certainly we work to be the best when it comes to global standards, and I'm happy to provide some follow-up notes to the committee as well on some technologies emerging around the world that are particularly advantageous for the inclusion and disability sector.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay. One of the challenges that I would assume would take place around standards and the standardization of standards would be the different levels of government and different jurisdictions outside of Canada putting in different types of standards. We have a responsibility federally for anything under federal jurisdiction and we also have provincial and municipal jurisdictions. Have you seen an attempt across the country to build a more standardized approach to something like building codes?

[Karen Moores]

I'm happy to jump in there, Karen. I'm sorry for the little delay in my mic.

A great example of working across the country is accessible MLS. Nova Scotia now has a fully accessible MLS. It is something we would encourage all provinces to do. Getting our provincial MLS systems to be fully accessible is something that positively impacts our cities, our towns, our provinces and our nation. That is a piece.

When it comes to building codes and acknowledging the cross-jurisdiction there, I think we need to have more persons with disabilities at the table. I think all of this comes back to being at the table.

I'd also like to touch on procurement. This was in my notes. More persons with disabilities need to be at the table when it comes to procurement. Whether it's leases for buildings federally, provincially or municipally, or whether it's purchasing equipment for offices or trying out new technologies, persons with disabilities need to be at the table.

I'd also add that we need to ensure that we're buying in greater numbers from entrepreneurs who are Canadians with disabilities. Inclusive procurement is the smartest procurement, and that's something we hope to talk a lot more about in 2025 as an organization.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm glad you brought up the economic piece. Obviously there's a moral imperative. We have to do the right thing, and that's making sure we increase accessibility. However, I remember reading a report a few years ago stating that there was a loss of almost $400 billion to Canada by not being fully accessible in all jurisdictions, so there is an economic imperative that's at play as well.

In Ontario, when we were building towards the Pan Am Games, we learned that all of our buildings had to be accessible and that the codes had to be up to standard. We knew that spaces that created more of an invitation through accessibility became more of an economic driver for tourism, for people going out shopping.

There is an economic imperative. The more accessible we are, the more we unlock our economy and the more we build. That's something I think we need to continuously remind folks about. There is a cost to building accessibility, but the benefits exceed the cost at the end of the day.

Are there any comments on that?

[Karen Moores]

Is that directed to Easter Seals or to my colleague from Ontario?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I think I've run out of time, but Ms. Moores, if you want to just give a brief comment, that would be great.

[Karen Moores]

We fully agree. A fully inclusive economy is the most inclusive economy. It is a tremendous goal of ours at Easter Seals to make sure that in every conversation, whether it's on employment, transportation or housing, we are always building towards an economy that is fully inclusive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your testimony and for the work done by your organizations. I'm certain you're making a difference in the lives of people with disabilities.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that there's an association in the region I represent called APPAL, the Association des personnes avec problèmes auditifs des Laurentides. This association, which does represent 127,000 people after all, provides services and support to deaf, deafened, hard-of-hearing and deaf-blind people in the Laurentians. It reminds us, and rightly so, that more than 20% of Quebec's population lives with deafness and that these problems increase with age and aging.

Ms. Madho, in your testimony, you said that the recommendations should recognize deaf-blindness. Am I to understand that this type of disability is not currently recognized in the legislation?

[Karen Madho]

Thank you for your question.

With regard to the Accessible Canada Act, DeafBlind Ontario Services was quite proud to be able to work with a number of different disability groups across Canada to provide input when that legislation was being put together. We were very firm about the fact that just because it may seem like there's a small number of Canadians who are deaf-blind, certainly that number increases, as we know and as I mentioned, as the population ages. As people become seniors, as a natural part of aging, they tend to lose their hearing or vision, and sometimes both, so the idea that Statistics Canada does not capture numbers in their surveys every four years of people who are deaf-blind is a bit of a limit. They capture numbers of people who have vision loss. They capture numbers of people who have hearing loss. Not capturing that combined disability—again, as I mentioned at the top of my comments, I want to state clearly that deaf-blindness is a distinct disability—is really leaving out this part of the population. It's leaving them out in the sense that they're not included.

I mean, even in the legislation there are stipulations that say you should have interpreters, but they don't say you should have intervenor services. Intervenor services are different from interpreters. As I mentioned, it's about context. The idea that you would leave out this part of your population is a problem.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Madho.

I think that's very clear. It seems very important to me to bring this information to our attention. You're right that it adds a level of complexity, especially when it comes to sign language. In any case, there is a particular reality that must be taken into account.

What are the main challenges for your members when dealing with the federal government in terms of services and so forth? Do they face any specific barriers?

[Karen Madho]

Thank you for your question.

I think what's important to understand is that for people who are deaf-blind, or even for the other part of the population we support—people who have developmental disabilities and are deaf, hard of hearing or who use non-traditional forms of communication—it's about communication. For someone to contact the federal government, a service provider or anything, the really key part is communication. As I mentioned, the people we support may use one or more forms of communication, but sometimes there are limits to the communication that's available through the federal government, for example.

Definitely, many of the submissions we've made over the years to government are to open up that idea that you don't just send it out in Braille and you don't just send it out in large font. Not everyone uses those. They need to be consulted: What form of communication works for you? What specifically is your preferred method of communication?

Sometimes people use more than one. It's about making sure there are opportunities for an intervenor to be available in the case of a person who is deaf, or a direct support professional to be available in the case of someone who lives with a developmental disability and who is deaf or hard of hearing or uses non-traditional forms of communication.

I just want to reiterate that it's really important to be communicating in the format or the method of communication they prefer. Otherwise, they're left out. They're left out of policies. They're left out of funding decisions. They're left out of considerations even in circumstances where their input is really valuable, like stakeholder consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

Madam Zarrillo, you have six minutes, please.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm a middle-aged woman who wears reading glasses that I'll be putting on and taking off throughout the day.

Mr. Chair, I wonder if you could just clarify the reason that the CNIB is not here today. To my understanding, it's because they did not have enough time to receive a headset. I'm concerned about that, because we do often have very short windows of being able to get witnesses.

Could you just clarify?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madame Zarrillo, each member of the committee has received a copy of a letter that I received from the House administration addressing this issue.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Can you share it with those who might be listening online today, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes, but it addresses this particular issue—I haven't started the time—which is the importance of getting your witness list in early enough to give time to the House administration.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm wondering if you could just clarify, because it was stated at the beginning of this meeting that the reason the person isn't here is.... What was the reason you gave at the beginning?

Mr. Chair, you mentioned that CNIB is not here because....