Human Resources Committee on Nov. 19th, 2024

[Mandy Symonds]

I work in the lobster industry. In southern Nova Scotia mainly it's a big part of the economy. Dumping Day is coming next week and you'll see the MPs and MLAs out there wishing the lobstermen a safe, prosperous trip. I always post and remind them about the seasonal workers in the lobster pounds. Without them, the lobsters do not move. They're not worth anything if we don't go in.

My typical day might start at three in the morning. I know the day before. And I've gone to work at three in the morning until six. I'll grab a coffee at McDonald's and drive a half hour and text my boss at the other place and tell them I'll be asleep in your parking lot, grabbing a half hour sleep, just before I start my next job at the other lobster pound. To juggle both, it's a hard thing to do when they need you and somebody else needs you.

In the off-season, they say, why can't you get a job? My season runs from the end of November to the end of May, but there are always lobsters in the pound until fall. I might have a really busy week and then some days, some weeks, it might be 20 hours a week.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It's fair to say there's a fair bit of uncertainty in that line of work, I imagine. You mentioned something I picked up on. You said there's no guarantee you will get work. Talk about that a little bit, the fact that there's no certainty about whether you might get work or not. Help us understand that.

[Mandy Symonds]

There's lobster, there's groundfish. Quota cuts have been very steep in the groundfishing fleet. That's a big factor. If the government makes a cut, you're going to give somebody who works on groundfish less work. For lobster, the catch has dropped. The bulk of the lobster is caught in the first two weeks. Then you have weather storms that play a big part. Then around the first of January some boats might bring their traps back in because of the damage the weather does to the traps. The price of traps has doubled from $100 to $200 a trap. It's all cost to them, as to when they can go out, the price of fuel, and as to where they would go day after day they don't do that no more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

[Mandy Symonds]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Symonds and Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Ms. Chabot, please go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentations, ladies.

Ms. Symonds, this study shows how important seasonal industries in your sector are for southern Nova Scotia's economy.

You talked about the impact of seasonal work on day-to-day life. How much of the economy would you say seasonal work represents, ballpark? For example, is it 30%?

Are seasonal industries essential to the region's vitality?

[Mandy Symonds]

The lobster industry is 90% of the economy for Shelburne County and Yarmouth County. It's a great area. It employs a lot of jobs, between 20 to 50 workers at each lobster pound. In my small town, last year, a lobster cannery was built, whereas one closed down two hours away because of lack of lobster.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Like many of your colleagues, I believe we need to take care of seasonal workers in regions or provinces where seasonal industries play an important role in the economy.

As we all know, seasonal work goes hand in hand with employment insurance. Seasonal workers experience a black hole, or gap, in other words, a period without income or employment between the weeks they work and when the season starts again.

Is that the reality of the people you represent? If so, how many weeks long is that gap?

[Mandy Symonds]

If you qualify for EI with 630 hours, it gives you 17 weeks of employment insurance. If you qualify for the five extra weeks, that would give you 22 weeks.

The black hole is a big reality. We have a second food bank that is in high demand. It's so sad to see people have to swallow their pride and go to a food bank.

Things have changed so much with the downturn in the groundfish fishery, with quota cuts and with lobster catches dropping. There are double the lobster pounds around here. Where there were 10 now there are 20, so everybody gets a little work.

It's frustrating that no matter how hard you try or look for other places...you check job banks and there is nothing. There is no other big business within hours of here.

Thank you.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Ms. Symonds, I think that clearly illustrates why the employment insurance system needs to be strengthened. We want to keep these important industries and workers in our regions.

We've heard solutions that would involve lowering the number of hours needed to qualify for benefits or raising the number of weeks of benefits. I will give you two examples. The first option would involve setting the total number of hours needed to qualify for benefits at 420. The second option would involve raising the minimum number of weeks of benefits to 35.

Given your relationships with other groups, would you say those are helpful solutions? Do you have other recommendations that would help?

[Mandy Symonds]

With the other groups, we always agree on 420 hours. You should be entitled to 20 to 25 weeks of EI when you put in the minimum number of hours. With 55% of your earnings and with the cost of living the way it is now, we have to get that up to 70%. The divisor at 20 is brutal. It really is. When you divide 20 into 55% of your earnings, that's way too high.

Like I said, max EI is a dream, but it's not a reality for many in the lobster pounds. You struggle, you go to food banks and you don't travel much. You just make the best of what you have.

Thank you.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do I have enough time for a short question, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes, go ahead.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Are there seasonal workers who are leaving these industries for good to find job security in other sectors, because of your reality?

If so, what is the impact?

[Mandy Symonds]

They look for other work. Some have taken the CCA. It was offered free in Nova Scotia, so they took it and graduated and are out of the lobster industry, but there are only so many jobs as a CCA. There's not many other jobs in this area or zone to go to.

Lobster is a big part of the economy, so when you take the seasonal workers out, the whole economy will crash here. It's a big area.

If we're not making money, we're not spending it. We've lost a bank and a gas station in my little town. It's just the start of things to come. It's disastrous to see.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go to Ms. Zarrillo for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

I am going to start with some questions for Witness Symonds.

I'm interested in two areas. This is kind of a modernization project on EI. It needs to be modernized. We know that. If we're going to open it up, it would be good to have a real understanding of how gender and climate change have impacted your work and seasonal workers.

I say that because when EI was first put together, they weren't really considering that women had work or full-time work, so we know there are many gaps. I think about maternity leave if you're a seasonal worker. I'm interested in how that affected you differently than it might affect other workers.

Then for climate change, can you just explain or describe how your work situation has changed over time with the change in climate? You even said “weather” a few times.

Has that changed over the years? How is it affecting work?

[Mandy Symonds]

On the gender, I, as a woman, a female I know that females always get paid less, so maximum EI is not going to happen. You have single mums, and it breaks your heart when you hear their stories. We don't get as much work as a male does. They go and load boats and we don't. We're just mostly in the pans and stuff. Even though they work, we go and work just as hard as the men at times. We get paid less, and we'll get less EI for less time.

On the climate change, yes, the storms are more frequent in the winter, which means that if the boats don't get out for days, you know that there's not going to be any work.

Also, it changes the habitat of lobsters. They shift a little.

They say they're shifting now to the warmer waters. They're moving.

When the lobster starts, the catches will be down again. They were down I think 20% last year. They're looking for a little drop this year with the climate change.

Thank you.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's interesting.

I note that the majority of seasonal workers are men, and that's across all of Canada.

Obviously, the Atlantic provinces have the most seasonal workers, but what are the conversations that happen in the pans around the needs of single parents and women? What are those conversations? What are the needs in relation to income supplements, to income and even to EI?

[Mandy Symonds]

They need to get more money out of EI and pay bills. So many are struggling with their children. They've had school programs. People have donated money for breakfasts at the local schools and different things. It's just stress all the time, it really is. They'll ask me: “Am I close to my hours? What do you think I'll get?”

When I tell them they're going to get $300 and something a week and the rents have gone through the roof, it's hard. It really is heartbreaking. People are messaging and asking you things and you've got to tell them the bad news: that you haven't been on a claim three out of five years, so you're not going to get the five extra weeks, or you're not entitled to the four extra that ran out in September and things like that.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Witness Symonds, you mentioned that you were part of a round table or a consultation. Can you talk about what that was? It was a government consultation, I guess. Was that provincial or federal? I wonder if you wouldn't mind letting us know if the federal government has had any consultation that you know of with seasonal workers in the lobster industry over the last couple of years.

[Mandy Symonds]

On the consultation, the commissioner for workers, Pierre Laliberté, does Zoom meetings with us. He helps us seasonal workers. I'm going to Moncton on the twenty-sixth, and on the twenty-seventh there are meetings with Atlantic provinces and members of employment insurance.

On the consultations, we all agree—the groups—on what we should ask for. It's a round table: 420 hours, 25 weeks of EI, 70% of your earnings, and a lower divisor, lower best weeks. We all agree on the same things. That was, oh my gosh, four or five years ago and—

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Did you ever hear anything back? Were there any changes? No?

[Mandy Symonds]

No.