Human Resources Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. Vien, we spoke earlier about the fact that, while preparing and introducing this bill, you realized that companies weren't required to collect information on their former employees.

Over the course of your work, did you make any other findings along these lines regarding ways to improve the Canada Labour Code?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I would say that the main finding was this one, which concerned the collection of information. As I told our colleague, Mrs. Falk, if we could give—

Sorry. I lost my train of thought. I don't know whether it's because people are talking on the other side.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You're interrupting Madame Sinclair-Desgagné.

You have the floor again.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Could you please repeat the end of your question, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné?

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Of course.

My question concerns the findings that you made when preparing your bill. Obviously, you held consultations and made a noteworthy observation about the lack of a requirement for employers to collect data on former employees.

Did you make any other findings?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

As I told Mrs. Falk earlier, it might be a good idea to review the regulations in order to ease the burden on people who are probably already traumatized or who are victims and who need to show that they experienced trauma or a health issue. The documents required even include a sworn statement at a notary's office. I'm still wondering why. Maybe it's to make sure that the person is telling the truth. I don't know, but it seems cumbersome. When I saw this in my research, I found that this process could be reviewed, corrected and streamlined. Obviously, you must show proof of your trauma and health issues. You can't claim to be a victim from one day to the next. I agree that some verifications are necessary. However, perhaps this is too much.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

My pleasure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

My NDP colleague Matthew Green outlined in the initial debate on this bill that coordination with stakeholders, including provincial bodies, is important, since the labour laws vary significantly, as you outlined in your presentation around the timelines.

How can this bill be amended to assist in coordinating with provincial labour laws to ensure consistent protection for all federal workers right across Canada?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Zarrillo, by passing this bill, we'll be giving a message and an impetus to a number of provinces across Canada. A number of those provinces are in a good position. In some ways, they do much more than the Canada Labour Code does right now.

I emphasized earlier the need to improve information gathering to ensure greater transparency and accountability. This will also provide food for thought for legislators regarding what works, what doesn't work and what needs to change.

Passing the bill would give an impetus to the various jurisdictions in Canada. It would be good if we could all get on more or less equal footing with regard to former employees.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I want to go back to the idea of data. It's been mentioned twice in our interactions today.

On the data side, how can privacy be protected? How can you see that data being stored, analyzed or shared, while still protecting the privacy of employees?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I'm not involved in the operations of the companies or the federal agency that receives this data. However, I trust that the data is already encrypted and protected. I have data on hand from the Commission des normes, de l'équité, de la santé et de la sécurité du travail and from the annual report prepared by the Quebec government. This data provides an overview of the number of cases.

Unless I misunderstood your question, I don't think that we're delving into considerations that could jeopardize confidentiality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's what I'm thinking about. It's the personal information of employees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

We have Mr. Aitchison for four minutes, and then we'll conclude with Mr. Coteau.

Mr. Aitchison.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mrs. Vien. This is a good and reasonable bill.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I think all the questions I had have already been asked.

Is there a specific point that hasn't been made that you'd like to make at this point?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I think that we covered a great deal of ground in terms of what this bill can do. Psychological harassment is insidious, and so is sexual harassment. The boundaries are blurred.

I was reading about the violence reported in organizations. The things that can happen in some workplaces defy comprehension.

Mr. Aitchison, I applaud the fact that all federally regulated employees don't have a deadline. I welcome that. I think that it's a great step forward for a society.

Quebec isn't as advanced. The deadline is two years. Here, it's better. However, when it comes to former employees, the situation is worse here than in Quebec.

I think that we could all say that we don't need to carry out long studies to understand that three months isn't much time. I could refer you to many academic studies. Everyone knows that three months isn't enough. Let's do this together. I think that all parties agree on this issue. There's no problem.

That's why I don't want to talk about seven or ten years right now. Companies also need time to adapt to everything, to buy into the idea and to understand the situation and the reason for moving in this direction.

I think that this would give everyone the opportunity to take a reasonable and moderate step forward. Let's take the time to look at the developments in this area and to see whether they have produced the desired results and whether we're on the right track. If any changes are needed, we'll make them. I think that it would be reasonable to proceed in this manner.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you.

I think that the operative word here is “reasonable”, and I think you've made that point very well.

Mr. Chair, I'll give my time to Mrs. Gray.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead, Mrs. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank Ms. Vien again for a very good and well-thought-out bill. Thank you very much.

We're in the last couple of minutes of this meeting here, so I'd like to bring another issue forward that's very important. This is in relation to the “2024 Report Card on Child and Family Poverty in Canada”, which stated that nearly 1.4 million children live in poverty in Canada, or roughly one in five children, and that this is “the largest annual increase in child poverty on record”. There were increases two years in a row.

It went on, “Canada saw...358,520 more children living in poverty than during the height of the pandemic in 2020.” We know that this is across every province and territory.

Meanwhile, as well, the cost of food also has increased 35% since 2015, and the percentage of children living in food-insecure households also rose in 2023, to 28.5%. These are very shocking numbers.

Therefore, Mr. Chair, I would like to move the following very short motion that has been put on notice. I move:

Given that recently published numbers from Campaign 2000 indicate that between 2021-2022, Canada experienced the largest jump in child poverty on record, the committee report its concern to the House.

I'm sure that all members of this committee can approve of this.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The motion is in order, and Ms. Gray was in a position to move it.

For discussion, I have Madam Zarrillo and then Mr. Fragiskatos.

Madam Zarrillo, go ahead on the motion by Ms. Gray.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really appreciate this motion from the Conservative side.

Campaign 2000 and other civil society advocates have been at the forefront of activism to end poverty for families in Canada. This is clear with this latest report card, and previously we have seen this work in their successful efforts to protect the Canada child benefit from clawbacks. At the time, Campaign 2000 urged the government to take the lead in entering into agreements with provinces and territories to ensure that families wouldn't see this needed income clawed back. We're seeing the same problem emerge now, though, with the Canada disability benefit.

The data this motion refers to shows how children with disabilities and their families are disproportionately experiencing higher poverty rates. We must ensure that, just like the Canada child benefit, the Canada disability benefit doesn't face clawbacks, or we will only see child poverty get worse for the most vulnerable.

I have an amendment, Mr. Chair. It reads:

Given that recently published numbers from Campaign 2000 indicate that between 2021-2022, Canada experienced the largest jump in child poverty on record; that children with disabilities, particularly young women and girls with disabilities, are disproportionately experiencing higher rates of poverty; that clawbacks to benefits perpetuate the cycle of poverty for people living with disabilities; that the Canada disability benefit has not yet been safeguarded from clawbacks and would provide needed relief for people with disabilities and their families experiencing poverty; and that, in the opinion of the committee, it is imperative that the government take the lead in engaging with provinces and territories to ensure that the Canada disability benefit does not face clawbacks by ensuring similar exemptions as were secured for the Canada child benefit by Campaign 2000, the committee report this and its concern over rising child poverty to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.