Human Resources Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, the clerk has advised me that we have a quorum and I am prepared to call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 139 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format.

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Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 8, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of workers in the seasonal industry and the employment insurance program.

We had two witnesses, but the sound quality for Mr. Jeff Loder was inadequate for professional interpretation, so we have one witness this morning, Madam Julie Brassard, chief executive officer of Mouvement Action-Chômage de Charlevoix, who is here by video conference. We'll go to her opening statement of up to five minutes and then we'll go to questions.

Ms. Brassard, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Julie Brassard, Chief Executive Officer, Mouvement Action-Chômage de Charlevoix]

Good morning. My name is Julie Brassard, and I am the executive director of Mouvement Action-Chômage de Charlevoix.

The Mouvement Action-Chômage de Charlevoix was founded in 1977 by members of the community. Every year, our team responds to approximately 2,500 requests for information and support related to the employment insurance program.

Charlevoix is a tourism region where one in three jobs is related to seasonal industry. All our businesses, small and large, in all fields of activity, add seasonal workers to their regular teams to meet the increase in peak season needs.

In January 2008, 3,075 seasonal workers in Charlevoix received employment insurance benefits. As of January 2024, only 2,079 remained. As of February 2024, a third of them had exhausted their benefits before returning to work. Since September, we have received 27 calls from workers who didn't have the required number of hours to be eligible for benefits. However, every spring, employers contact us because they are looking for workers. Since 2008, we've lost 996 seasonal workers, and those who remain are all working. I can confirm that the labour shortage is real and that it will continue to worsen, since most of our seasonal workers are people over 60 years of age and will be leaving for retirement in the near future.

This situation has been going on since July 2000, when a redistribution of the employment insurance administrative regions led to considerable changes in eligibility criteria and the duration of benefit periods. Since then, the unemployment rate has steadily declined in Charlevoix and now stands at 4.7%, with serious consequences. Indeed, since the unemployment rate changes the conditions of access, the number of weeks of benefits payable and the amount the worker can expect, this is a major factor contributing to the increase in poverty among our seasonal workers, who are mostly women. The unemployment rate is recalculated every month, making it unstable and unpredictable. If you have a high unemployment rate, you need fewer hours to qualify and you get more weeks of benefits. If the unemployment rate is lower, they will have to accumulate up to 700 hours to be eligible and will receive only 14 weeks of benefits.

The amount of the benefit will also be influenced by the divisor, which is also based on the unemployment rate. Since our workers don't accumulate enough weeks to meet the criterion of the 22 weeks of work needed for calculations, they are doubly penalized. These are low-wage workers. They don't work full time, as they often work part time at the beginning and end of the season. While they have an average salary of $18 an hour and a number of weeks worked vary between 15 and 20 for the majority, the benefit rate of 55% will still be calculated based on a divisor of 22.

We also have to consider climate change, which disrupts the way the seasons run. The May 1, 2023, flood in Baie-Saint-Paul delayed the start of the season, which resulted in consequences for many workers who were unable to accumulate the 700 hours required to be eligible.

We need to review this system, because it no longer meets the needs of our population and our work reality. When one in three jobs is seasonal, an entire economy suffers. Our reality is incompatible with an unpredictable system whose rules and conditions change depending on changes in an unemployment rate.

Since I took up this position in 2014, I have witnessed several attempts to address the EI black hole. In 2018, Services Québec created the Charlevoix regional round table, of which we were a member. There was a two-pronged project put in place. It was a support measure for seasonal workers and seasonal businesses that made it possible to extend the season through training that provided access to insurable hours. The first year, 26 participants affected by the EI black hole participated, and the following year, only 10 participants. This initiative did not make it possible to avoid the EI black hole.

There have been other attempts. This year, Tourisme Charlevoix launched a project that has been tried by many others before it: sharing employees between two businesses covering two seasons. Few companies have signed up. Only five matches were attempted, and only one was successful. The fact that many workers already have other part-time jobs in the winter or are already on call for their employer in the off-season makes it very difficult to do this kind of matching. For Charlevoix, it is impossible for these workers to live without employment insurance. So there has to be a change.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Brassard.

We'll now begin with Mrs. Falk for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'd like to thank our witness for being here today.

Throughout the duration of this study, we have heard that it's difficult to retain workers in seasonal industries. Can you provide one or two of the main reasons seasonal workers seem to be leaving work in seasonal industries and going elsewhere?

[Julie Brassard]

The lack of hours is precisely why. The workers don't work enough hours to cover the entire season and can't qualify for employment insurance, or EI. When they try out a seasonal job, they can't stay in it because they can't make it through the winter. They are forced to find other jobs. Usually, it is people who move to the region and leave after one or two seasons, because they realize that they can't survive all winter.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Do you happen to track what other types of industries some of these seasonal people may go to?

[Julie Brassard]

As I said in my presentation, one in three jobs in Charlevoix is seasonal. When seasonal jobs end, the tourism sector becomes slack. The regular jobs are already filled. The jobs that are available are often skilled, full-time jobs. They cannot be filled by seasonal workers, because they don't have the required skills or education.

When the tourist season starts up again, there are plenty of full-time jobs for seasonal workers. However, they all have jobs already. That's why there's a big labour shortage in the summer.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

The reason I asked that question is that in my neck of the woods—I'm from western Saskatchewan, bordering Alberta—we have a lot of people coming from Atlantic Canada, for example, to work in our energy sector. Our energy sector employs a lot of people specifically from Atlantic Canada. They'll actually relocate and move their whole family, or they will come temporarily and go back home on their off-days.

You brought up low-wage workers. Given the landscape we have today in Canada, I'm wondering how economic pressures, such as inflation, impact seasonal workers in particular. Are there examples other than the hours and salaries that you mentioned?

[Julie Brassard]

Seasonal workers earn between $15.75, which is the minimum wage, and $18 an hour. When the jobs end, they receive only 55% of their pay in EI benefits. Given the rising cost of living, they obviously have to use food banks.

In addition, the EI benefits usually run out around February. Workers find themselves without EI before their jobs resume. Those are the people we're seeing at food banks. We're talking about seasonal workers who are mostly over 60, because our population is aging. Young people will not take seasonal jobs, especially if they have a family. They take other types of jobs instead.

Based on our research, three out of four seasonal workers are over the age of 60 and are part of a couple. The woman works as a chambermaid or dishwasher or does some other tourism job. The man is more likely to work in the bush or in landscaping, the type of job that is either less available or non-existent in the winter. There are a lot of jobs like that in the Charlevoix region. Many small businesses hire seasonal workers when the tourist season starts up again, because they don't have enough staff to meet the increased demand when the tourism industry reopens. All other kinds of businesses, like garages—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I apologize for interrupting you. I have a quick question. I don't have much time left. I just want to follow up on this.

You mentioned that EI for most seasonal workers runs out in February. How long are some of these workers going until they receive a paycheque again or are working again? When would the season start again?

[Julie Brassard]

Tourism season usually starts up again in May. At the start of the tourist season, however, the work is part-time rather than full-time. It's mostly chambermaids who are going back to work. Otherwise, there is weekend work when the tourists arrive. That's what happens in May.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

We have Mr. Fragiskatos for six minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Brassard, thank you for your presentation today.

You talked a lot about the challenges. Do you have a key recommendation for our committee? Of all the things you've talked about, is there one that is especially important to you and your organization?

[Julie Brassard]

Two aspects of the EI system need to change for our workers, most of whom are seasonal.

First, the criteria to qualify for EI need to be reviewed. Workers have to have 700 hours of insurable employment to be eligible for EI benefits, but the majority of them can't get that many.

Second, we need to rethink the number of weeks of benefits so that the workers can make it to May at least.

Those are the two things that are the most challenging right now.

The issue of the variable unemployment rate needs to be reviewed. It's currently at 4.5% in Charlevoix. Based on that criterion, for the past two years, people have to have worked 700 hours to qualify.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you again, Ms. Brassard.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to give the rest of my time to Ms. Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much for giving me the rest of your time, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Ms. Brassard, thank you for being here today. I'm happy to say I'm familiar with the work you've been doing for years to defend the rights and interests of the unemployed. Your organization really helps people.

I wanted our committee to conduct this study on seasonal workers because their harsh reality is sometimes overlooked. For years, we have been calling for comprehensive EI reform for many reasons. The system has not been reviewed in 15 years. Seasonal workers have special needs.

You said that, in your beautiful region, one third of jobs were held by workers in the seasonal industry. I was listening to the questions from my colleagues about how seasonal workers could find another job. The big question is how these workers can be retained given that they contribute significantly to the economic vitality of a region.

Can you give us an example of how the loss of these workers is negatively affecting vitality?

[Julie Brassard]

As I was saying, every spring, employers call us. Since we are the Mouvement Action-Chômage de Charlevoix and we have access to workers who are receiving EI benefits, employers call us to get the names of workers. Each time, I tell them that seasonal workers who receive EI benefits are all going back to work. Since they already have jobs, I don't have any names to give those employers.

People often don't understand that seasonal workers who receive EI benefits aren't people who have just lost a full-time job and are available to start working wherever the next day. They already have a job and are already attached to a business. Often, they have been working for the same employer for 20 or 30 years. Employers want to keep them.

However, as our population ages, the workers are gradually retiring. A number of the workers I've met with every year since 2014 no longer receive EI benefits because they have retired. We've lost them.

It is extremely hard to find new people to fill the jobs, because EI benefits are not enough to live on during the winter. They can't just wait for the tourist season to start again. Young people who want to qualify for EI can't. In addition, they don't have access to the five additional weeks of benefits currently available to extend coverage during the winter period. To be eligible, you have to have applied for EI at the same time of the year at least three times in the past so many years. After people have worked for one tourist season, they are entitled to only 14 weeks of EI benefits. In December or January, they no longer receive anything. They are forced to change careers or communities, and businesses can't retain them.

Every November and every spring, there is the Salon Emploi Charlevoix, a job fair where workers can meet employers. Employers are definitely looking for workers for the summer season, but there are fewer and fewer of them, because we're losing them.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I think the current study has made it clear to everyone that the period between the end of benefits and the return to the same job is called the spring gap. On average, how many weeks does the spring gap last? Workers have no income and no job for how long?

[Julie Brassard]

It's not the same for all workers. Last year, the government added four weeks to the five additional weeks of EI benefits, for a total of nine additional weeks. One in three workers managed to get through the spring gap. For the others, the spring gap lasted eight to 12 weeks.

It varies greatly from one person to another, depending on the type of job they have.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

In our previous meetings, some witnesses called for the duration of additional benefits paid under the pilot project to be increased from five to 15 weeks, until the eligibility criteria and unemployment rates are reformed. I will come back to that later.

As you know, changes to the pilot project can be made through regulations. Could that be a solution?

[Julie Brassard]

Obviously, going from five to 15 weeks could be a solution, since some workers are without benefits for up to 15 weeks. Yes, increasing the number of additional weeks of benefits could be a solution, except that it would be short-term. That's what's a bit sad. The problem is going to recur.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You talked a lot about changing unemployment rates. Pierre Laliberté, the commissioner for workers at the Canada Employment Insurance Commission, told the committee that, given the fluctuating unemployment rates, 60% of workers now have to have 700 hours of work in order to qualify and receive benefits for a mere 14 weeks.

Earlier, in response to a question, you said it was important to make changes to the eligibility criteria for EI. Do you think the solution is to establish a single eligibility criterion of 420 hours, without taking into account regional unemployment rates, which may no longer be relevant in 2024?

[Julie Brassard]

Obviously, a set criterion of 420 hours would be the best solution, since people would be able to qualify. Some chambermaids who have been working at the same business for 20 years have to work weekends in the winter or they can't get the 700 hours required. They have been working at the same place for a long time, but if they did not work part time during the winter, they would not be eligible for EI. Whenever they can work, they do, because that way, they are eligible for EI the following year.

A fixed unemployment rate would also reduce all that insecurity. Every October, people call us to find out what the unemployment rate is. It causes them stress all summer long. Some women work so much that they don't even have time off. They work seven days a week to get as many hours as possible. That makes it very hard to have a good quality of life.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

In your opening remarks, you also talked about the infamous divisor of 22 weeks, the 22‑week criterion. We've heard about that from other witnesses as well. One of them, from a group in Nova Scotia similar to yours, said that it was very harmful, especially since the benefit rate is only 55%.

Could you tell us about the consequences of the 22‑week criterion and, mainly, what the solution would be?