Evidence of meeting #141 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmhc.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Coleen Volk  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Nadine Leblanc  Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and Policy and Interim Chief Risk Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Kristina Namiesniowski  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Elisha Ram  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development

The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)) Liberal Bobby Morrissey

I call this meeting to order.

Committee members, the clerk has advised me that we have a quorum. Everybody today is appearing in the room and virtual will not be an issue.

Welcome to meeting number 141of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, but as I indicated, all participants are appearing in person in the room.

I would like to review a couple of comments.

The first I'll begin with is for those in the room. Please mute your devices that may go off during the meeting. That can cause issues for the interpreters. As well, please refrain from bumping against the microphones, because again it can cause issues for the translators.

You have the option of choosing to participate in the official language of your choice. In the room, interpretation services are available by clicking English or French. I would ask you to make sure you're on the right channel before we begin so that you're hearing the language of your choice.

If there's an issue with the witnesses, I will have a technician go to the back and explain, but I assume you are on the right site.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before you participate. If there's an issue, raise your hand, including if there's a breakdown in translation. We'll suspend while it is being corrected.

With that, pursuant to the motion adopted on Thursday, October 10, 2024, the committee is commencing a briefing by the president and chief executive officer of Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

We have two witnesses with us this morning: Ms. Coleen Volk, president and chief executive officer, and Madame Nadine Leblanc, senior vice-president, corporate affairs and policy, and interim chief risk officer.

We'll be doing one continuous two-hour meeting.

With that, I've agreed that Ms. Volk will give an opening seven-minute statement to members. Then we will commence the questioning.

Mrs. Volk, you have the floor.

Coleen Volk President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's a pleasure to be here today in Ottawa, the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I appreciate being invited for my first appearance before this committee as CMHC's president and CEO. CMHC values the contributions of the HUMA committee and the working relationship we've built.

I come to the post with an extensive background in the public service at the federal level and at the provincial level in Alberta. This gives me a solid understanding of how CMHC can work best with government partners to get results.

And I come to the post at a time of continued housing challenges for Canada. Far too many struggle to find and keep a home they can afford and that meets their needs. Canada needs to substantially increase its supply of housing. And it needs to do so in a way that is equitable.

In response, we are renewing our focus on our role as one of Canada’s largest financial institutions. That, I think, is something people often forget about CMHC.

Our strategy for the coming years tightens our focus on our three business activities.

We provide housing finance solutions. This includes providing mortgage-loan insurance that helps buyers access homeownership, while also incentivizing more multi-unit building – the kind of homes we need more of. Meanwhile, our securitization products ensure lenders have reliable access to mortgage funding and ensure stability in the housing-finance system.

Our second business activity is providing trusted research and expertise on housing. Our clients here include industry, non-profits and all orders of government. Our unbiased market intelligence ensures that everyone is working with the most accurate information to make the best decisions.

Lastly, of course, CMHC delivers Government of Canada housing programs to increase housing supply, preserve stock and contribute to affordable housing.

Through these activities, we can have a strong, positive impact on the housing market. We're already seeing that impact in our most recent quarterly results. We insured just over 206,000 units through our multi-unit products in the first three quarters of 2024. That is up from 156,000 during the same period in 2023—a more than 30% increase. This was primarily driven by interest in MLI Select, an insurance product that incentivizes affordability, accessibility and climate compatibility.

We have also seen increased uptake of our securitization products, namely NHA mortgage-backed securities and Canada mortgage bonds. Through those commercial products, we are helping players in the private housing market do what we need them to do and what they want to do: build homes. I note that we're Canada's only provider of mortgage loan insurance for multi-unit residential properties.

On our research side, we recently released our fall 2024 “Residential Mortgage Industry Report”, one of our flagship reports. We also released a survey of rental housing developers that drills down into the challenges they face in building more rental homes and the opportunities that exist to increase that supply.

The third pillar of work, of course, is delivering government housing programs. This includes managing loan programs to support the construction of both market housing and affordable housing, again utilizing our position and expertise as a financial institution. It also includes contribution-only programs to support housing for the most vulnerable Canadians, and programs to encourage innovation in the housing system. For example, we recently launched the new co-op housing development program. Starting this year, the program will provide $1.5 billion in loans to support the development of thousands of affordable rental co-operative housing units in Canada.

In delivering these government initiatives, we are benefiting from our relationship with Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada. This is the federal department now responsible for housing policy and program development.

Indeed, you probably noticed that this is a key theme in all of our activities—partnership. CMHC does nothing alone. We can do nothing alone. Everything we do is done hand in hand with partners in the private sector, not-for-profit sector and government. This way, we ensure our efforts and funding go further and benefit the most people.

This is where we stand as we enter the new year. With a sharpened focus on our core business and strengths as a financial institution, CMHC can continue to make a positive impact on the housing system and in the lives of Canadians.

Thank you again for the invitation. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mrs. Volk.

We will now begin with Mr. Aitchison for six minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mrs. Volk.

Would you agree that the cost to build a home is one of the biggest barriers to home ownership and affordability right now?

11:05 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

The cost of building is certainly a factor in the affordability of homes, yes.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

You can add up the municipal charges, fees and taxes; the provincial charges, fees and taxes; and the federal charges, fees and taxes. Do you know what the average cost of those for the average home is across Canada?

11:05 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

I don't know a number for that.

Nadine, do you know if we have a number?

Nadine Leblanc Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and Policy and Interim Chief Risk Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

If you're talking about the planning fees to get to the construction of housing, it's approximately—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

No. What I said was to add up the total cost of government charges and fees at the local, provincial and federal levels. Do you know what the average cost per home is percentage-wise, across the country?

11:05 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and Policy and Interim Chief Risk Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Nadine Leblanc

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

We can certainly return with a precise number, but—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

That's okay. The average is about 30% across the country. I'd think you would have that. In Ontario, we just saw reports of about 36%.

Are you aware that this is the biggest chunk of the cost of homes in the country—30% to 36%?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

Yes, 30% sounds about right.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Would you agree, then, that we need to reduce the cost of government in the process of getting homes built?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

Anything we can do to reduce the cost of housing is important.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

If government is the biggest chunk of that cost, it makes sense that we should try to reduce the cost of government.

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

I think anything we can do to reduce the cost of housing is important.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

At the federal government's direction, your organization, through the housing accelerator fund, gave about $471 million to the City of Toronto. The first quarter of that has gone out, I take it.

Right after they finished signing that deal, they increased development charges by about 42%, which is a pretty significant cost on a home in Toronto. That means that the development charges went from $117,000 in May 2024 up to $137,000 by June 2024.

Do you think that that's going to be an impediment to housing starts in Toronto?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

Development charges are definitely an impediment to housing starts, yes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Are you aware that housing starts in Toronto are down by about 40% this year since last year?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

I believe that, yes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

The City of Vancouver got a $115-million approval on the housing accelerator fund through your agency. Housing starts there are down 15%. Are you aware of that as well?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

That sounds about right.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Ottawa got $176.3 million, and housing starts are down about 22%.

I'm wondering how much you think cost of government at the local level.... You have a federal government giving money to cities that are actually then turning around and making it more expensive to build.

Instead of just giving more money to cities, is there something we could be doing at the federal level to help reduce the cost of homes?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

Coleen Volk

That's a big question.

Let me address the housing accelerator fund first, if I may. The intention of the money that's being given through the HAF is to provide for systemic change in the municipalities. It's to speed up zoning, execution, application turnaround and some other things that will make it faster for execution.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON

Can I ask you about that, then?

The crisis is today, so I wonder if it's the most prudent investment of tax dollars in trying to fix long-term problems without any real, tangible evidence that it's occurring. If you look at what's going on in Toronto, it looks like it's not working, and it's a lot of money.