Human Resources Committee on April 28th, 2022

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

That's super. Congratulations on finishing a Ph.D. That's a phenomenal accomplishment that not a lot of people do.

Looking forward, for anything the committee can help with and for anything I can help with personally, feel free to reach out directly so that we can put you in contact with some of the different organizations.

My final comment is more for the whole committee and everybody listening, but is for you as well, Ms. Collins. I don't know if you're aware that there's the Sam Sharpe breakfast next Tuesday morning from 7:30 to 9:30 here in Ottawa. It's supposed to be virtual, but we're having some technical difficulties. It's the ninth annual one. It's hosted by the Honourable Erin O'Toole and retired Lieutenant-General the Honourable Roméo Dallaire. It's all about mental health.

The guest speaker is retired Lieutenant-Colonel Christian Lillington. He's speaking this time around. He's retired and has just published his own book as well, but from a family perspective, and it's some great research. There will be a number of organizations participating in that. You'd likely benefit from attending.

Again, feel free to reach out. I will pull whatever strings I need to make sure you get a personal invite.

[Tara Collins]

Thank you. Yes. I would definitely be interested.

I would be interested for sure in your connecting me with anyone. As you know, I'm very passionate about this. I definitely think families need more recognition, so please do. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff. I'm sure you'll follow up with Ms. Collins on that particular point.

Madame Martinez Ferrada, please go ahead.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Ms. Collins, thank you for your opening remarks.

I wasn't on the committee when you received this award, but I wanted to congratulate you on all the work you've done. I have a family member who just got his PhD. I know how long and how hard that journey is. So congratulations on what few people do in their lives. Well done!

I'm going to ask you a question that seems to be outside your study. You know that the current war in Europe is going to have an effect here because we are going to welcome a lot of families. I know that the study you did looked at military service and how it affects the family living with someone who has served in the armed forces.

We have welcomed Afghan and Syrian families, and we will be welcoming Ukrainian families. How do you think the study you've done can be beneficial in understanding what families will experience? How are these families going to overcome these traumas once they get here?

[Tara Collins]

Thank you for the question.

I think this study has a huge impact in recognizing that coping is not a linear process. A number of different factors will impact families. It depends on their presenting concerns and what they come with at that time, while also recognizing that there are those shifts in family dynamics.

I don't want to say that it's only for the families who are coming in, as this could also apply to civilian families, but obviously there are more complex dynamics. I do want to acknowledge that I think it's really important to look at multiple levels. It's not just about looking at the micro level and looking at families; it's also about looking at the external bodies. What are the policies? What's the culture? It might be looking at the Canadian culture. How does that influence the families?

Actually, interestingly enough, I know that some of the research suggests that immigrants who come here experience a higher level of mental health issues. I think that's important as well. It's about just recognizing that multiple levels take place. Making sure that we implement supports prior to their even developing any mental health issues would be very important.

In terms of recommending, obviously you can't force people to access supports, but I think we should be implementing as many supports as we can, and recognizing as well that people are essentially having to relocate. Look at the relocation of Canadian military members. They are facing a number of different losses in terms of the lack of support systems and having to look at different employment and medical care. All of those pieces need to be considered. Obviously, it's oftentimes hard to find a doctor. How do you connect these people with all of these different resources so that they're not experiencing additional stress? I think it has a lot of relevance there as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good.

Ms. Collins and Madame Martinez Ferrada, I need unanimous consent to continue. As you hear, there are 30-minute bells.

I will take direction from the committee. Do we have unanimous consent?

Okay. Thank you. We will continue.

Madame Martinez Ferrada, have you concluded?

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

I had a quick question about the scholarship you received and the money required to do this study. Was it a scholarship that supported you well? Was the amount adequate, given the scope of your study?

Considering your personal funding for this study, is the amount sufficient?

[Tara Collins]

Doing a Ph.D. is very expensive. I did actually receive an award from Wounded Warriors. That one was quite extensive. I mean, every little bit helps, for sure. I didn't have to tap into any savings, though.

I do appreciate, as I said, any amount. Obviously, the more, the better for people, but that $5,000 really supported a lot of my own travelling to visit families and to sit down with them. In terms of time as well, it saved me resources, for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Martinez Ferrada.

I have a question, if I could take the liberty, as chair, to pose a question.

Okay? Thank you.

If I'm correct, Ms. Collins, in your opening comments you made reference the fact that part of your study is on how to “predict coping”. Do I have that correct?

[Tara Collins]

A theory is about predicting and explaining something, so yes, it is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Could you expand on that? I'm curious, because to predict coping.... I mean, everybody copes differently. Every situation has a different context. I'd be curious to know what your understanding is and what your research led you to conclude.

[Tara Collins]

As I said, nobody fits in this very tight box. It's a constantly shifting piece. It's constantly evolving. What I did find, though, out of all of the participants, was what the process looked like for their going through these different states.

I wish I could show you the diagram. It really goes all over the place—think of little swirls—between the different states. It's not a matter of being stuck in one of those states. I broke it down into presenting concerns, family dynamics and coping in each of those states. That was the most talked about during the different states. It's not that it necessarily 100% happens. However, that's what I found most predominantly.

Normally with qualitative research, and in particular with developing a theory, you test it afterward quantitatively or through numbers. Currently, these are the voices, and the voices are telling me that this is predominantly what happens in each of these states that the families go through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Did you uncover a common thread?

[Tara Collins]

Oh, for sure. Yes. The common thread would be going through each of those different states. The common thread was that military families who knew of them prior to the PTSD that developed had more resources. They had that ability to go back—to go back to their friendships before, to go back to being able to reassure them that they're more than the PTSD. All of the states had themes that came up that were quite regular for each of them.

For the crisis state, as I said, every single one of those families found that the barriers and policies associated with trying to get supports were way too much for them. All of those families, as I mentioned, went into that crisis that was very severe, to the point where, for example, in one family, the gentleman had a couple of kids who had to call their mom and tell her that their dad wanted to kill himself. He didn't have those resources and coping tools.

I would say that there is a theme that happened in each of those categories, the states I had mentioned, but of course nobody fits in a tightly knit box.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Van Bynen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is really good information. The presentation is great.

It leads me to the next step with this, namely how we're going to advertise the program. I see that some of the communication tools involve a web page. I'm wondering if this interview, this discussion and this presentation could form part of that web page so that people who are interested in the grant can see exactly what has come out of that. It might be a good place, as we distribute knowledge of it, for people to be able to reach in, take a look at the presentation and get the benefit of this interview. I think that would be very helpful, showing that we don't shelter or keep what was learned under a basket.

How do we get that out?

[Tara Collins]

Please do put this on your website or anywhere. As for me personally, I've had a number of families reach out to me afterward and say that this was really beneficial to their knowing that the secondary trauma, or this trauma, happens to families and that families are impacted. Feel free also to send them my phone number and email. I get messages all the time—actually, a fair bit—from different people.

As I mentioned earlier on being able to connect me to different sources, that's fantastic, and I'm certainly willing to get that information out as well. I really do strongly believe that this information and this study can help people to recognize what might be needed to get to those healthier states of functioning. By all means, please advertise and please connect me with different people.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may, can we ask the staff when they're going through the communication side of this program to give some consideration to doing something like that so we can get the maximum benefit out of what was learned?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Certainly Ms. Collins has made the offer, and we'll ensure that is taken into consideration.

[Tara Collins]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

On behalf of the committee, Ms. Collins, thank you for reaching out to apply and for participating in the study.

The study you did is certainly very current in the world we live in. The challenges and demands on individuals and families continue to grow. Again, thank you for coming in and explaining your study and what the Centennial Flame award meant to you.

[Tara Collins]

It did mean a lot to me. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It is a fascinating field that you were delving into, Ms. Collins. Again, on behalf of the committee members, thank you for participating and thank you for taking the time to be here with committee members today to answer their questions.