Evidence of meeting #19 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tara Collins  As an Individual
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Danielle Widmer

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)) Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Good afternoon, committee members.

As you know, we were delayed for a vote, but the clerk has advised me that we have quorum, and we will call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 19 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development, and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

I'm going to dispense with the rest of the introductory items. I expect everybody to follow the health protocols that have been approved by the House of Commons. I would remind members who are appearing virtually that if you want to get my attention, please use the “raise hand” icon. For those members in the room, simply raise your hand. As you know, please speak clearly and slowly so that the interpreters are able to interpret accurately for the benefit of the committee.

With that, at this time, I want to welcome Tara Collins, the 2018 Centennial Flame Research Award recipient, to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions. For the question period, we will simply be following an informal process, not the normal questioning allocation. Any member of the committee who has a question for Ms. Collins, simply raise your hand and I will recognize you in order so that everybody gets a chance to question Ms. Collins.

Ms. Collins, if you're ready, please begin with your opening statement. Thank you for being patient and waiting while committee members did the business of the House, which was to vote in the commons. Ms. Collins, the floor is yours.

4:10 p.m.

Tara Collins As an Individual

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much.

I want to say thank you very much for the award as well.

Normally, I start with a territorial acknowledgement. However, I realize that I have five minutes here, so I just want to say that I am on the Treaty 7 region in southern Alberta. I do want to recognize that in the name of truth and reconciliation.

I want to present in terms of my interest. My interest really came from my own personal PTSD—post-traumatic stress disorder—as well as seeing my children struggle with some mental health issues. There are some gaps in literature, and there are limited services, in particular for children. One thing my daughter said that really struck me was, “Why are you and dad able to go to an equine therapy program and I'm not able to?” It really impacted her as well. I still see that with her, and I see it with myself, when struggling still at times with my own PTSD, with some nightmares. As well, I'm easily startled.

This award means a lot to me.

I want to start by just saying that there's a large range of PTSD, depending on whether or not somebody's in a war zone. It can range from about 8% to 20%. A really important piece is that it impedes a family's functioning as well.

I looked at how families cope when they live with a military parent experiencing post-traumatic stress disorder. For my findings, I looked at what's called Corbin and Strauss's “grounded theory”, which looks at “how do I engage with the literature?” and “how do I engage with the data?”.

I had 25 participants. Twenty-one were non-military parents and four were adult children. I conducted interviews that were semi-structured and in-depth. For the findings, what happens with the grounded theory is that we really look at developing a theory: How can you explain and how can you predict coping?

The findings were family-evolving; that was my theory that I developed. I ended up looking at the definition as the process involved in “the modification, adjustment or alteration of family behaviours in responses to changes in the family environment with the aim of overcoming and adapting to adversity posed by military PTSD”. Basically what that means is that we're looking at the stressors and available resources. As the stressors become more predominant and the resources deplete, the more challenging it is for individuals to cope.

I just want to really quickly read one of the quotes that I have:

Life changed after he was diagnosed with PTSD. He changed; our family changed. The way we did things changed. We had to be careful not to upset him, so we walked on eggshells and tried not to get him going.

That was a very common theme: walking on eggshells and really trying to protect the family, and not only the family but the military member as well, to protect them from being triggered.

Based on this, I was able to determine that there are six states of functioning. I won't go into the details, just in the name of time here.

One of them was stability and healthy functioning, which occurred prior to the military member's having PTSD. Eleven of the participants knew the military member before PTSD, and that included all four of the adult children, who had known the military member before they developed PTSD. This state was stability and healthy functioning, which doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't any stressors; however, this was when there were not as many stressors experienced without PTSD.

Also, then, there are instability and wavering functioning. That occurred when there were more stressors placed on the family and the family had not as many resources, so they ended up spiralling a bit more into an area where they weren't functioning as well.

Five of the families ended up going into the next state, which was crisis and emergency functioning. What that looked like was really a crisis happening in the family, with risks to themselves or risks to others. Those could be suicide attempts. It could be police involvement. It could include child welfare. This happened in particular when the military system or Veterans Affairs was not providing enough support to them.

All of those families who did not have the support they needed ended up going into a crisis, unfortunately, and then they went into rebalancing and rebuilding.

Now, these families don't fit into this little box, so it's important to recognize that it's like an oscillating state of functioning. They go through some phases, but as well, they will not go through other states. They bounce all over the place, depending on those resources. Following the rebalancing are reoccurring instability and deflated hope. Once again, they started feeling hopeless that things would change.

Finally, there is a refocusing and evolving functioning. That point in time is really when they evolve. The military member is likely seeking support and the children are receiving support. Unfortunately, all four of the adult children did not receive any support. Their support often came from recreational activities, which can be problematic, because about 25% of families identify that they do not have the money for being able to attend those recreational activities.

The implications for military families are the recognition that prevention is really needed, and intervention as well, in looking at families oscillating again through those states. My theory was really able to capture the presenting concerns and the family dynamics, as well as coping, whereas most studies look at the presenting concerns and the family dynamics without taking into consideration the holistic piece there, and really recognizing as well that case managers play a role. Unfortunately, a lot of them did not find case managers helpful.

That being said, I do want to say that all of these families were extremely resilient, so my recommendation would be to ensure that multiple strategies are taking place to help families adapt to the change. Families continually revise and refine strategies and structures, so again, it's often an ongoing kind of process to ensure that families are getting that support as well and that there are proactive supports in place.

I will end there. I think that was about five minutes. That was very quick. I originally had a presentation of about an hour, so I cut it down as much as I could there. Thank you very much, and again, thank you very much for the award.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Ms. Collins.

Yes, you took that extensive report and cut it down. You did well. Some witnesses appearing before the committee could learn from you.

I'm sure committee members have extensive questions for you.

The first person is Mr. Long. As I indicated, we'll keep a balance in the timeline.

April 28th, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to my colleagues.

Ms. Collins, thank you for your work and for your report. I was part of the previous HUMA committee, along with MP Chabot, that awarded this to you.

I take your recommendations, and I absolutely appreciate them. I think they're good recommendations. My first question to you would be, was there anything along the road of doing this report that really surprised you, that you weren't expecting?

4:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

Thank you for the question.

I was surprised by a number of pieces. I was really surprised that none of the adult children were able to access supports, and I was quite surprised that the recreational piece was the main support.

The other piece that I found surprising was looking at the Veterans Affairs website and trying to get a sense of the policies. There was definitely a lot of discrepancy between.... In the description, it talked about the families being “integral” to the well-being of the military member, yet they had to really fight for any kind of support. Those kind of contradicted each other, because it was recognized that their well-being helps the military members, yet at the same time they really had to jump through hoops. All of the families found that it was not an easy process, unfortunately.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you very much for that.

I have a last question for you, Ms. Collins. Can you tell us, in your opinion, what we can do as a committee to make the Centennial Flame award better? How can we improve it? How can we make it more responsive to people like you?

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

To be honest, again, I really appreciate the award. I was really grateful. I don't know about doing better, but I think it was amazing that you recognized the invisible disability as well; I don't know that I'd necessarily have recommendations, except to say that I think it was really critical. It sounds like it may have been a unanimous decision, so I was really thrilled to know that the invisible disabilities are recognized. Again, I know that kind of skirts around the recommendations, but I do think that you did an excellent job.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Ms. Collins, thank you very much for the report. It's excellent.

4:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Next we have Madame Chabot.

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Collins, bravo to you and congratulations! Thank you for your contribution to this research.

I have two questions for you.

When we talk about strategy, it's difficult to put your finger on the right solution. Are strategies based on a family approach? There is an approach that includes the whole immediate family, the family unit, of course, but the definition of family includes extended family, which can sometimes be more important than immediate family members. Is the notion of extended family part of the considerations in the process?

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

Thank you. I think I understood that in French. I took French immersion; however, it's rusty.

With regard to the definition of “family”, I would say that is actually something that would be a limitation in my study. I did have somebody ask whether or not it could be just partners whom I interviewed or if a family had to include children. With regard to that piece, I did not interview partners solely who did not have children, because of the fact that there has been literature and there have been studies done on that “family”.

Another challenge was the different dynamics. In terms of having two same-sex parents, although I would definitely consider that a family, I actually was not able to find anyone in my study who came forward and identified as a same-sex couple. As well, in terms of different cultures, I know that some cultures identify extended family as well. I would say that Veterans Affairs unfortunately at this point in time does not take into consideration some of the additional family members who are integral to families' lives.

As I said, there are certainly no supports for even the adult children. The Veterans Affairs crisis line does not look at allowing people to call in for support after the age of 21. Even that piece was problematic.

In terms of supports, I think what I would recommend as well for families would be ensuring that they have more input into the care and having the case manager being extremely transparent about what services are out there and what they qualify for. A lot of these participants were really having to dig for what supports were out there and what they qualified for and, as I said, really fight for those supports. For the website to identify that families are “integral” and yet not provide a smooth transition is problematic.

Did I answer all of that?

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Wonderful.

It was nice. Thank you.

I have one last question for you.

The committee will have to consider a strategy to raise awareness of the Centennial Flame Research Award. How did you find out about the award?

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

On that piece, I might need interpretation.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

You may be on the wrong channel, Ms. Collins. There is interpretation.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

Is there?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

You can go to the icon on the device you're using and look at “Interpretation”.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

Okay. I apologize.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Let me explain. Madame Chabot asked how you became aware of the particular Centennial Flame bursary and how the committee may advance better communications on that.

How did you become aware of it? Do you have any advice to the committee on how we could better promote it?

I believe I'm capturing that correctly.

4:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

That's an excellent question.

I'm a good “googler”. I tried to figure out which scholarships were out there. I'm not sure if it is on the different university websites, but I would recommend trying to implement it. There is a list of different scholarships that individuals may qualify for.

In the event that it is not, I would probably see about putting it in different universities as well, to help people recognize that it is available. That would be the predominant way to advertise as well.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you.

Ms. Collins, do you see a global icon on the bottom of your device? Your interpretation may be turned off. If you click....

4:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

I think it is on now. It is “English”.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Yes, there you go. Madame Chabot may have additional questions, or Madame Ferrada, who will do hers in French.

Next is Mr. Ruff.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks, Ms. Collins, for coming and speaking to us today, and thanks for your support. To my understanding, your ex-partner was military.

From personal experience, military people can't do their job without the support of their families. I know that it's so difficult when members are facing this and family members end up dealing with post-traumatic stress and other types of challenges that come with supporting somebody in the military lifestyle.

I know that you were doing this as part of your Ph.D. You indicated on your application that you were in the process. Have you finished your Ph.D.? I ask because the angle here, not just from the academic perspective and your sharing it with us here at this committee and through the award, is whether or not your information been shared with Veterans Affairs Canada already and with others, with the Canadian Armed Forces directly or with the military family resource centres. I'm wondering where the information has gone and what kind of feedback you've received to date.

I have a subsequent follow-up.

Thanks.

4:30 p.m.

As an Individual

Tara Collins

I graduated in January 2022. I've just graduated. I'm in the process of doing a few different pieces right now. I actually wrote a paper on my own experience, which is going to be published. I'm looking at doing some different publications as well. My goal is also to approach those three bodies, as well as, potentially, some Legions. At this point in time, I have not reached out; however, that is my plan.

I also applied for a presentation with the Canadian Institute of Military and Veteran Health Research, as well as one in the States, actually, in Phoenix, on children's well-being. That's my plan in the future.