Human Resources Committee on Oct. 19th, 2022

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to take a few minutes for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating virtually, please use the “raise hand” function before speaking. Click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you're done speaking, please mute yourself to minimize interference. For those in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. Your microphone will be controlled by the verification officer.

The clerk and I will manage the speaking order. You may speak in the official language of your choice, and interpretation services are available for the meeting. If interpretation services are lost, please get my attention. We'll suspend while they're corrected.

I would also like to remind members that no screenshots are allowed. Should any technical issues arise, please advise me, and we may need to suspend to correct them.

Before we begin today, I would like to ask if we have the consent of the committee to proceed with the election of the first vice-chair.

Mr. Aitchison, go ahead.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not entirely sure how this process works exactly. Can I get some advice? I have an idea of someone for the first vice-chair, and if I'm just to propose that now, I'll do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madam Clerk, please speak to it.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Danielle Widmer]

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the first vice-chair must be a member of the official opposition. I am now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

If the official opposition wants to move at this time, go ahead. Or we can deal with it on Monday, at the next meeting. It's totally at your discretion.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Monday is fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

If you want to deal with it on Monday, that's fine. Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, June 15, 2022, the committee will resume its study of Bill C-215, an act to amend the Employment Insurance Act.

I would like to inform all members that the witnesses are appearing today virtually, and they have concluded the technical test. Interpretation services are okay to proceed.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks. The witnesses today are officials of the Department of Employment and Social Development. We have Anamika Nandy, director general, employment insurance policy, skills and employment branch; and Benoit Cadieux, director, special benefits, employment insurance policy, skills and employment branch.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. It's my understanding that Monsieur Cadieux will provide the opening five-minute statement.

Monsieur Cadieux, you have the floor.

[Benoit Cadieux, Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Benoit Cadieux. I'm the director for employment insurance special benefits policy at Employment and Social Development Canada.

Today, I'm joined by my colleague Mona Nandy, who is the director general of employment insurance policy at ESDC.

As you may be aware, in June 2021, Parliament approved, through the Budget Implementation Act, 2021 No. 1, an extension of employment insurance sickness benefits.

This extension increases from 15 to 26 the maximum number of weeks of EI sickness benefits payable to workers, including the self-employed who are registered, when they are unable to work due to illness, injury or quarantine. The target date for this extension to come into effect is the end of 2022. The exact date will be announced later this fall.

The EI program is a labour market program designed to provide short-term income support to workers during temporary absences from work. A key objective of the EI program is to support labour market reintegration, and it is designed with the expectation that claimants will return to work after interruptions resulting from life events or job loss.

In this context, EI sickness benefits are designed to complement other supports available to workers in cases of longer-term illnesses, such as employer-provided benefits and longer-term disability supports.

Roughly one-third of EI claimants use all 15 weeks currently available under EI sickness benefits. Out of this number, close to half do not return to work following their sickness leave. Most of those who do return to work do so within 10 weeks after exhausting their benefits.

Bill C‑215, as introduced, would amend the Employment Insurance Act to extend to 52 weeks the maximum number of weeks of sickness benefits that may be paid to a worker or self-employed person when they are unable to work because of illness, injury or quarantine.

This bill also contains coordinating amendments to ensure that if this bill should receive royal assent before or on the same day as the extension to 26 weeks comes into force, this bill would repeal the provisions related to the extension to 26 weeks so they don't come into force afterwards.

Finally, this bill does not specify any date of entry into force. It is therefore implicit that it will come into force on the day it receives royal assent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Cadieux.

I will now open the floor for statements, beginning with Mrs. Falk for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the department for being here and being willing to answer questions.

This committee has repeatedly heard that EI sickness benefits are wholly inadequate. This isn't a new thing. During this committee's study on EI modernization, we heard that the benefits should be extended to about 50 weeks, and that was ultimately the recommendation given by this committee to the government and to the department. We now know that the government has rejected that recommendation and wants to extend the benefits up to only 26 weeks.

In the department's consultations on EI modernization, were you able to identify support for the extension of sickness benefits to 52 weeks?

[Benoit Cadieux]

Thank you for the question.

As I've mentioned, the results from the EI sickness benefit evaluation that was conducted in 2019 and published in 2020 indicated that claimants were much less likely to return to work after taking more than 26 weeks of leave. That included those who exhausted their 15 weeks of benefits. What the evaluation found was that 10 weeks afterwards, claimants were much less likely to return to work, and those who did tended to return within 10 weeks of exhausting their 15 weeks of benefits.

Therefore, extending sickness benefits to 50 or 52 weeks would provide additional income supports to many workers who may not be expected to return to work at all. This—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'm sorry, but I have limited time. Why did the government or the department choose to go forward with only 26 weeks if there is that need for more—especially since this committee had already made recommendations through previous studies that we should have more than 26 weeks—for instance, 50 or 52 weeks? Why is the department going forward with only the 26 weeks?

[Benoit Cadieux]

That would be a question for your colleague, the minister of ESDC.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Did the department not get direction for what this committee recommended, 52 weeks? Did it get direction for only 26 weeks?

[Anamika Mona Nandy, Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Maybe I can jump in there to add a little bit.

During the consultations on EI, we certainly received a significant amount of input to support increased access to EI benefits, including for claimants who experienced job loss or have experienced life events that require them to step away from work.

We're in the process of reviewing all of that input to consider how to move forward with a plan for EI modernization, but as it stands—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

If the consultations aren't done and the department is still combing through recommendations, why are the department and the government going forward with 26 weeks, as opposed to the 52 weeks that this committee had given the recommendation for? It just seems like we're putting the cart before the horse if we haven't gone through all the work beforehand but are coming out with 26 weeks.

[Anamika Mona Nandy]

The commitment to increase the sickness benefits from 15 to 26 weeks was, as my colleague indicated, part of a budget 2021 commitment. It was included as part of the Budget Implementation Act, 2021, which was approved by Parliament. Further to that, we are proceeding with the work required to implement a sickness benefit extension from 15 to 26 weeks.

At the same time, we continue work on supporting the modernization of EI through consultations that include thematics of how to improve access and adequacy of the program for all claimants—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

Did the department make the recommendation to the minister to only proceed with 26 weeks?

[Benoit Cadieux]

I would say that recommendations made to the minister are confidential and are a cabinet confidence. I cannot speak to what recommendations were made by the department to our minister.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay.

What is the date when Canadians will be able to access the 26 weeks?

[Benoit Cadieux]

As mentioned by the minister earlier in the House of Commons, this extension will come into effect by the end of 2022. An exact date will be announced later this fall.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Wonderful. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Now we'll go to Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Please, would you identify which one of the witnesses your questions are directed to?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start off by saying thank you to Mr. Cadieux, and to Ms. Nandy as well, for your extensive work in the last number of months on the EI modernization and the extensive consultations with Canadians that have taken place through a number of round tables from coast to coast. Thank you so much for your work on that important initiative.

I wanted to ask Mr. Cadieux a question. When was the last time any extension to the EI sickness program was initiated?

[Benoit Cadieux]

Thank you for the question.

EI sickness benefits were never extended. They have been 15 weeks since their introduction in 1971.