Evidence of meeting #48 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmhc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Coteau.
Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
With respect, Ms. Bowers, I accept part of your answer, in connection with the process, the change in culture and the fact that it was essential to adapt. However, it's not just an obligation of means, but also one of outcomes. I'm getting the impression that I'm listening to jargon that doesn't really respond to the needs of people waiting for a housing unit.
I would like to respectfully remind you that one of the objectives of the national housing strategy is to reduce chronic homelessness by 50% between now and 2027‑28, meaning within five years, but the Auditor General has said that we currently can't even get the data.
I'll give you another very concrete example. The Auditor General said recently that organizations, including CMHC, did not know whether the efforts made thus far had really improved housing conditions for vulnerable people.
Can you comment on that?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Mr. Chair, with respect to the Auditor General's report on homelessness, CMHC has accepted the recommendations and findings of that report. We are working very hard to address them. We understand and appreciate the very great need that is being experienced by Canadians who are at risk of homelessness or who are homeless. We're going to do the best we can, with all the resources we have, to address this problem in the coming years.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I have a very concrete question for you. If you don't have the time to answer it, you could send us a written response.
Who are the people living in the units that were built in collaboration with CMHC under the national housing strategy?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
We collect this information, and we will provide this information as the housing units are built and as the units are occupied by the residents.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
As I understand it then, we don't really know who is living in these units, we don't know what the conditions are and we don't know the dates. That's rather worrisome.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I believe Ms. Kwan made a data request about very specific information that was being requested by Madame Chabot, and we will provide that as requested.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Bowers.
We have Madam Zarrillo for two and a half minutes.
December 5th, 2022 / 4:50 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much, Ms. Bowers, for your testimony today.
I hear there is no confidence in the national housing strategy targets being met in the current format. The market-driven focus that CMHC has taken is not working for the most vulnerable, and it seems that the federal housing advocate is urging a change of approach, more of a human rights-based approach, to housing. It was mentioned a number of times today that current results are by design and by policy.
My question, Ms. Bowers, is this. Do you plan to make immediate changes to policy and design in the national housing strategy, and what are those changes?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The national housing strategy is comprised of a number of initiatives that provide housing across the housing continuum. We have programs that provide close to market housing, but most of our programs are intended to support Canadians in need. We provide and track the housing units that are financed through the programs and provide transparency about the units that are being financed.
When I think about the grants and loans that are being made available through our programs, we provide the deepest level of funding to the housing providers that provide the most social benefit.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Are there changes coming to the market focus to move more to supporting vulnerable—
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
I don't agree that the national housing strategy is market-focused. It depends on the program. Most of our funding is going to those in need, and I think it's mostly the rental construction financing initiative, which is 100% loan-based programs, that provides close to market housing. In terms of the deep subsidies for affordable housing, the bulk of our program is going to non-profits and other levels of government.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Did those non-profits know that operating agreements were expiring over the last 10 years? I've known for 10 years that operating agreements were going to expire.
I'm going to ask a bit about the rapid housing agreements—and nothing was done on those expiring operating agreements. I have an Order Paper question here on the rapid housing initiative, and I just wanted to understand “underfunded”.
How many rapid housing initiative applications were denied federal funding? In round one, there were 12,000 units, approximately. In round two, it was reduced to 5,000 units. Can you give us an idea of why those projects were denied? I see in Nunavut as little as 12.5% of programs in round one.
Can you give us some information on why they weren't funded?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The rapid housing initiative is our most generous funding program. There were many more applications than there was funding available. I don't have the specific units, as you mentioned. For example, in the first round of the initiative, there was $1 billion of funding available, and we received over $6 billion in applications. We had—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I don't have much time. I'm sorry, Ms. Bowers.
Could you, in follow-up, let us know what the criteria were for choosing? What was the decision tree for choosing?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Yes, absolutely.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Madam Zarrillo. The answer to that question will be provided to the committee.
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Yes, our criteria are very transparent, and the scoring criteria are provided publicly.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Bowers, we know that the CMHC paid out about $48 million in staff bonuses over 2020 and 2021.
Can you tell us what the bonus pool is for 2022?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
The question is what is the bonus pool for 2021-22?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
No. How much will the bonus pool be for 2022 specifically?
4:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
That determination has not been made. We're at the end of the year, and we're just going through the end-of-year performance evaluations for employees.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I'm sorry. You reported back at public accounts last week that it was $30 million for 2022. Is that a rough estimate?