Human Resources Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you. I understand how the programs work.

Is it CMHC's opinion that the government will in fact meet this target?

[Romy Bowers]

Homelessness is a very challenging area of effort. It requires not only the housing support but also wraparound services and other supports provided by other levels of government—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, but I have very limited time.

Is it your opinion that CMHC will meet this target, as the government has laid out?

[Romy Bowers]

The target was set prior to the pandemic. The pandemic has worsened the homelessness situation in Canada—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is your answer no, then? I don't have enough time, so could you just give me a short yes or no?

[Romy Bowers]

It is a very challenging target to meet.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The Auditor General is saying it's not going to achieve the federal national housing strategy target of reducing chronic homelessness by 50% by the 2027-28 fiscal year.

I'm hearing you echo that, unless it's different. If you want to provide something more fulsome in writing to the committee, please do so through the chair.

On the coinvestment fund, right now my understanding is that CMHC has reduced the amount of funding to community groups such that they can receive only $25,000 per unit. Is that correct?

[Romy Bowers]

That is correct.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

What will happen for community groups that require more than $25,000 to achieve their project? If they don't get it, there are only two ways to go: The affordability criteria will not be met, or the project will not be viable.

[Romy Bowers]

We look at projects on an individual basis. We have targets like the $25,000 target per unit that you mentioned, but we always look at projects on an individual basis and do what we can to make sure the projects are viable and succeed.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I wonder whether I can submit written questions of other members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You can, yes.

Mrs. Falk, you have five minutes, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As was stated earlier, CMHC has agreed with the Auditor General's finding and recommendations. In response to some of my colleagues' questions around the table here, you said that CMHC is working judiciously to implement the Auditor General's recommendations. If so, what has been done?

[Romy Bowers]

In terms of the data issue, and this has actually happened—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

The recommendation.

[Romy Bowers]

The recommendation. In terms of improving the quality of data, we are doing work with Statistics Canada to improve information about the individuals who are occupying the units we are funding. That's one initiative. That work has already started.

We're also continually improving our reporting and increasing the transparency of the information we provide to the public. That's the second item with regard to the data.

In terms of accountability and working in greater collaboration with Infrastructure Canada, we have established an ADM-level working group to make sure we can better coordinate the programs we have at CMHC, the housing financing programs, with the homelessness program that's implemented through Infrastructure Canada.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

There's a working group. When will that be put into action?

[Romy Bowers]

One working group is already in place. We feel there's—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'm sorry. I mean, when will the working group's work be completed and then put into action? We could sit and have groups and meetings to have meetings and do nothing, so I'm just wondering what the timeline is.

[Romy Bowers]

It's not the kind of working group where there's a.... It works on actions on a continual basis, because we're rolling out initiatives on a continual basis. The aim of the meeting is to have senior-level officials working together.

For example, as we roll out the rapid housing initiative, round 3, we're working with Infrastructure Canada to understand the needs in their communities, making sure—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Was this an existing group, or was this started because of the AG's report?

[Romy Bowers]

There was always collaboration between the two departments. This is a formal committee that was set up to address the specific recommendations made by the Auditor General.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay. I want to quote something from your opening remarks here. You said, “CMHC has [consistently] met the national housing strategy's ambitious targets, and we've added new programs as conditions and needs have continued to evolve.”

However, from reading the report, it looks like the success hasn't really been measured, so I'm wondering how that fits in here.

[Romy Bowers]

With respect to the reduction in chronic homelessness, that is much more difficult to measure because of the complexity of the issue. As I mentioned, it's not a matter of counting units, the level of rent, or the number of people living in those units, so it requires more work and collaboration with various actors within the housing system to ensure success.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

In response to that, I would say that when there's a will, there's a way. Is that right?