Human Resources Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2023

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Last time you were here, we spoke of the need for menstrual equity at work. I want to thank you for advancing that work. The folks of B.C. are very excited about that.

We know that EI and labour policy were traditionally focused on men, and there is a lot of catching up to do to put a gender lens on both EI and labour. With that in mind, this committee has a study on the care economy coming out soon, a study on workers who traditionally have been ignored—mostly women, immigrant women—and taken for granted even though their work truly underpins the economy in health, wellness, child care and education, all of those factors that are key to a healthy economy. I'm just going to ask that you please watch for that important study and the recommendations.

Part of that is the working conditions of nurses, one of the most dangerous jobs in Canada. I'm wondering how C190 will protect nurses.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

On convention 190 from the International Labour Organization, which we just ratified in Geneva, I think what's interesting about C190 is that it actually is inspired by BillC-65, which of course came into effect here in this country on the issue of sexual harassment.

For anybody who doubts Canada's leadership in the world when it comes to field of labour, my chest swelled, my shoulders were back and my head was held high in Geneva when we were reminded by the International Labour Organization that they took inspiration for C190 from Bill C-65. Bill C-65 would be the more relevant legislation, obviously, in this country. It will create a safer workplace that will protect those who are suffering from threats of or acts of sexual harassment.

We came down very forcibly, particularly after we saw threats and actions against nurses and support workers during COVID. I am the son of a nurse, very proudly so, and we won't tolerate that. We simply won't.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister. The nurses would benefit from hearing more of that from you, even in the press, in the media.

The last time you were here, you also spoke of mental health supports for trades. I was thinking at the time about health care workers. I was wondering if the care professions are also going to benefit from mental health supports and polices.

Also, why hasn't the Liberal government spent the $4.5 billion promised for mental health support?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'm going to look to my deputy, perhaps, to see if she wants to answer that specifically on the $4.5 billion.

[Sandra Hassan, Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development]

On your first question about the care professionals, those who fall under federal jurisdiction would of course be covered by the bill Minister O'Regan referred to, Bill C-65, and we do have nurses who are under federal jurisdiction.

In terms of the money spent, we do have in the labour programs some programs that are grants and contributions aimed at mental health programs, but to your specific question, I'll have to come back. I'm not sure if it was under our portfolio.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you. I'd like to know where they intersect.

I have one other quick question. This is specific to something in my riding, and maybe for other Ukrainian unaccompanied minors who have come to this country.

I had a young man in my office recently who is here as an unaccompanied minor, but doesn't have the ability to work. He isn't able to have any of his own money from having a small job, or even, as we approach summer, to be able to work in the summer.

I wonder if there's an opportunity for some intersection on immigration, so that the Ukrainian unaccompanied minors could get some leeway on their visas to be able to do some work to have their own money. Right now, they're relying on their sponsor families.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I can certainly take up that issue with the ministers involved. That would be the Minister of Immigration and, potentially Minister Qualtrough as well. This is something that I think we all feel very passionately about across party lines. There's no question about it.

I think that's a very good and specific concern.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I still have another minute. That's wonderful. I want to give the minister that minute to talk about the estimates. We're here about the estimates today.

Is there anything else you would like this committee to know about spending and some of the grants that are potentially coming out of your ministry? I'd love to know what to watch for, for my community as well.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

This is your opportunity to shine, Brian.

[Brian Leonard, Associate Director General, Corporate Financial Planning, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Okay.

For the labour program, the Minister of Labour is responsible for two grants and contribution programs. They are the labour funding program and the workplace harassment and violence prevention fund. The total for those two combined is $13.3 million this current fiscal year. Neither is being topped up through the supplementary estimates (B).

In terms of what these programs do and who they could help, Deputy, could I pass this back to you?

[Sandra Hassan]

We use those funds for co-operation with external stakeholders to allow them to develop programs that will address harassment and violence. For example, funds have been allocated to various universities where programs specific to certain communities have been developed.

We also have some in certain industrial sectors where the prevalence of harassment and violence, for example, is to be addressed through specific education and other types of programs of that nature.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

We'll go to Madam Ferreri for five minutes, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for attending today.

I want to start out with child care. We're seeing this CWELCC program and Bill C-35 being rolled out and discussed in the House right now. Anybody who's been following this or who works in the industry knows there's significant burnout. Wages are not keeping people in this industry. I have letters here in front of me from a day care in Simcoe County that has had to shorten its hours because of labour shortages.

The promise is 250,000 early child care workers. This is wading into a lot of provincial jurisdictions when we look at child care and these agreements. You're already wading into that kind of jurisdiction, so at a federal level, there's a lot of anticipation that you will have a national strategy around how you're going to meet these demands.

I'm curious what that is. This number is lovely, and it's lovely to hear that you're going to hire this many, but you can't even retain or recruit the people you need now. Why wasn't a national child care strategy put into that bill? Do you have one?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I appreciate the question. It is a concern. You have to make sure that workers, particularly workers in very vulnerable occupations, are looked after.

I come from a provincial government. I worked in a provincial government for five years. Trust me, as natural resources minister, I was schooled in what is in provincial jurisdiction and what is in federal jurisdiction.

I would say it's very important to clarify that we're not the ones doing the hiring, but we are the ones doing the funding. We leave it to provinces and actors within provincially regulated jurisdictions to do that hiring. We leave it to them to do that. I'm very conscious of—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm sorry, Minister. With all due respect, that's fine, but there's a federal promise of 250,000. Are you just going to say that's your promise, but there's no plan for how to help the provinces meet that demand?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

First of all, while it's a shared concern, don't doubt the ability or the motivation of provincial authorities. They also recognize that this is a problem and I fully expect they will be able to deal with it in a manner that is best for their particular provinces.

I'm very mindful of provincial jurisdiction on these sorts of things. I'm proud of the fact that we are funding day care nationally, but I really do believe that the implementation of it is in provincial jurisdiction and we have to be mindful of that.

I think the federal government has a history of often poking its nose too far where it shouldn't be, but I think it's important that we fund it.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

On the record, you're setting yourself up for massive failure because, if there's no plan in place, money is not going to solve this problem.

You have to have these workers in place in order to care for our children. Children are at the crux of this and there's no plan. You are saying that you'll let the provinces deal with it, but you're mandating it. That's passing the buck.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We're coming to an agreement with provinces and territories on funding. Each province is developing plans that are specific to the province—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Wouldn't you think that you need a national—

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

We have just recently completed our study on the workforce. Clearly the labour shortages, as reflected in that report, do not fit within this minister's mandate. I thought we'd be coming back to that when our report was released and we would have a discussion with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Van Bynen, that is not a point of order.

Ms. Ferreri, you have the floor, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

I guess what I would ask is this: Do you not think there would be significant value to setting the federal government and the provinces up for success if there was a national labour strategy around this?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I find it most effective, particularly in this field, for each province to deal with it in the way that is most effective and specific to its province.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

I have a phone message here from someone who works in human resources. On the 10 days of paid sick leave, I think we all agree we want Canadians to be able to take a sick day when they need it.

She is a human resources manager and her concern is that these new provisions were really intended for government workers and it wasn't considered how it would impact other federally regulated employers, such as manufacturing. She said that, in just a month, the attendance has significantly dropped. It's destroying their ability to get the work done. In a supply management crisis, this has been a sort of unintended consequence of this program.

Is there any effort to correct this or acknowledge it?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We consulted heavily with employers and with unions on how we would implement these 10 paid days. I can't speak to what the person who has texted you may be saying anecdotally, but right now, accumulatively, they have access to only three days at this point in time. They have to be accumulated over the course of this year, so if they're taking any more than that, then potentially they're unpaid or, potentially, they are paid because there are many employers within the federal jurisdiction have met the 10-day mark or are close to meeting the 10-day mark.

I don't begin in a position where I believe that workers will immediately run out there and take advantage of these things.