Human Resources Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2023

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I don't think it was taken advantage of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

There was additional time for the point of order, but your time has now concluded.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, and thank you, Minister.

We will now move to Mr. Van Bynen for five minutes, please.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The pandemic has taken a significant toll on workers. Whether it was working from home, spending long hours on screens, stocking shelves with groceries or health care professionals working overtime to care for patients, workers were experiencing burnout and high levels of stress and anxiety. This can have a host of impacts.

We were just in Geneva where Canada ratified the International Labour Organization's convention 190. How does that help workers? To carry that further, how does ILO C190 fit within what the government has done to confront violence and harassment in the workplace?

You've told us where Canada stands, but I'd be interested in knowing what more can be done. What are you giving some consideration to for the future?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We brought into force Bill C-65 so employees now can expect better time frames for resolution. There's the confidentiality of all parties involved. There's protection for employees victimized by third parties and others. I think the most important thing—and what I do appreciate about Bill C-65—is that we now have the legal obligation for employers to sit down with their employees and talk about sexual harassment.

The other part that I'd like to talk about actually gets back to the questions we were talking about with child care. The closer you can arrive at solutions on the ground, the better. The less that distant government is involved in arriving at these solutions, the better. What we're doing with Bill C-65 is saying that each workplace sit down with their employees and their employer and come up with a sexual harassment policy that's going to work. We've given, as I've said, some parameters on time frames, on confidentiality, on protection for employees who may be victimized by a third party. Other than that, the less the government is involved, and the more that employers and employees can arrive at these solutions themselves so that they're specific to their workplace, the better.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

That's a great segue. In the past year we've seen many opportunities where labour agreements have been reached at the bargaining table. This is good news for workers and employers, and all Canadians.

The Canadian economy relies on workers in federally regulated sectors. Going into 2023, how would you characterize the relationship among government, business and labour?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

To speak to the importance of some of the industries within federal jurisdiction, I remember quite clearly that it would have been roughly about this time last year when we were dealing with CP Rail. Suddenly I'm getting frequent daily texts from the U.S. ambassador to Canada and then the Secretary of Labor, who informed me that he was texting from the White House and that this was a concern. Canadian Pacific, CP Rail and CN Rail are big movers and shakers in the United States and Canada, and making sure we have stability there is incredibly important.

I can tell you about one of the biggest takeaways from my year and a half now as labour minister. In the ministries that I have held in government, I have dealt with some extraordinary public servants. The people in the federal mediation and conciliation service are exceptional. They know how to sit down and find agreement when you think no agreement can be reached. I'm not going to say that we didn't have a number of nail-biter situations, but they managed to get all parties to sit down and understand the implications of a work stoppage to the Canadian economy.

I would venture to say that these officials have managed to save our economy billions of dollars—billions—in the past year alone. There were so many, whether it be with CP, CN, Via, Loomis, Purolator, WestJet—any one of those. Cumulatively, what that would have done to the Canadian economy at a very vulnerable point in time over the past year coming out of COVID-19, I don't want to think about. I've thought about it too much. Thankfully, for a number of these issues, we've turned a corner. These officials are to be commended by all of us, if you ask me.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

We've seen a very significant transition in our economy, a higher reliance on technology and artificial intelligence. What are you considering on a go-forward basis to manage the transition into the new economy, the digital economy, the green economy? How are you managing that, or do you have any specific projects in mind to address that issue?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Certainly on the issue of AI and automation, my eyes are wide open to it, but more importantly, I think the eyes of a lot of the union leadership and employers are also wide open to it. We are in an age of labour shortages, and I can tell you right now that all the AI in the world is not going to solve the fact that we have a skilled labour shortage and a trades shortage. There's still a lot of room for growth in those areas. These are the people who build homes. This country experiences a shortage in homes, for instance. They're the ones who know how to lower emissions in pipelines. They're the ones who know how to build up renewables. I'm a big fan of the trades, and that isn't going to change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have two questions for the minister.

My first question pertains to minimum wage.

In 2021, the federal minimum wage rose to $15. In 2022, it was indexed. In 2023, given the economic situation, would you be in favour of raising it to about $18, as advocated by several unions?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madame Chabot, I would have to say that I appreciate the suggestion. I'm not in a position to answer. I think that would be complicated. I think the economy right now is fragile enough. A minister surmising on such issues could have implications, so I have to be very careful about what I would say about that.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

At least I got to ask the question. Thank you.

My second question has to do with introducing a bill and comprehensive measures to ensure a just transition. Which is, in fact, mentioned in your mandate letter. You share that responsibility with other ministers.

During pre-budget consultations, the Canadian Labour Congress made its case to obtain the money needed by workers, who are part of the solution, in the context of climate change and the just transition. As we know, the transition to address climate change could result in job losses in some sectors. So it is important to support workers.

What is the game plan on this issue?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I could wax on for quite a long time on this issue. I am excited about the opportunities here. I confront those who treat this as a source of anxiety and I resent those who politically stoke those anxieties. I come from an oil-producing province. I realized a long time ago that there were far too many politicians, frankly, who were stoking anxiety in an area where I see tremendous growth.

The reason I see tremendous growth is that we need workers to lower emissions in the oil industry. The oil industry in this country is not going anywhere. We are the fourth-biggest producers of oil and fifth-biggest producers of natural gas in the world. I take great pride in the workers who have built those industries, but I look at them now and I'm working with them to say, “We urgently need you to lower emissions. We need you to show the same ingenuity and hard work that you did in building this industry to change it so we lower emissions within that industry and we build up renewables.” We can and we will do both. We are one of the very few countries in the world with the wealth of natural resources that we have and the technical know-how. I regret the fact that over the years we have made workers feel excluded when they are absolutely central—central—to getting this important work done.

When we went through COVID, one of my biggest concerns was that COVID and an oil price war happened at the same time. Everybody forgets this. I remember looking at the price of oil hitting negative $35, and for Canada that was a big moment. How do we work together to make sure we retain people in the industry? I need more people in the energy industry, in the oil and gas industry, in order to lower those emissions. I think using things like orphan wells, for instance.... It's not a perfect system, but we managed to keep workers in the industry doing good work.

We have lots of challenges ahead. I went to Edmonton about a week ago to meet with the Alberta Federation of Labour. These are people I keep in very close contact with on both the employer and employee side. It is our national mission. It is our national mission right now, and we have a chance to shine. The world is watching Canada on this. I'm very proud of the work that's being done and I'm ambitious about the work that we can do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Madam Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I need to talk about anti-scab legislation. Right now we are on the precipice of having anti-scab legislation passed. We know that there is long-standing exploitation of workers in this country. I spoke earlier about women and immigrants in this country who have long been exploited in the care economy.

Workers deserve this protection. The bulk of the work has been done. All that is needed now is for the Liberals to pass it. My question is this: When is that going to happen?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

As we've agreed with the NDP, we will be introducing that legislation by the end of this year.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm wondering if it's going to come in the next couple of months. Is it going to come before we break for the summer?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We will introduce it, as agreed, by the end of this year. I really do want to make sure that we get this right. We want to make sure that the collective bargaining process is as free and as fair as it possibly can be for workers, so that they are equipped to ask for more when they feel they should have the right to do so. We want to make sure that it does nothing but benefit the economy by making sure that we go about what I think is a fundamental change in the collective bargaining process in a way that maintains stability for our economy.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

In the last minute that I have, I want to revisit, again, the issue of mobility. One of my colleagues earlier raised the issue of mobility for persons in trades. I want to ask about mobility for health care workers, so that health care workers are be able to move nationally across the provinces.

Is that something that's also being discussed?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Health care workers and the regulation of health care workers are clearly under provincial jurisdiction. As we deal with significant labour shortages in the health care field, the ability of workers to move around the country as well as having their credentials recognized in other jurisdictions is something a lot of people would like to see.

I'm not going to step into the lane of the Minister of Health or the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, but I'm sure that discussions are being held.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

To conclude, we'll go to Mr. Lewis for five minutes, and then we'll finish with Mrs. Martinez Ferrada for five minutes.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a couple of questions.

Minister, I want to speak about just transition for a moment. I as well have met with a lot of skilled labour, both union and non-unionized trades, across the country. I hear a lot of concern with regard to our oil sands. We all agree that the environment is vitally important. We have people who have skilled trades that are kind of losing their jobs. When I say just kind of, I mean not a little bit. When we look at Saskatchewan, plants are closing and folks have nowhere to go. Many of these folks are 40, 45 or 50 years old, and are not necessarily wanting to go back to college to learn a new trade.

Minister, can you confirm, or can you give us some direction that we're not going to risk high-paying jobs for the folks across Canada due to just transition?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Risk...? I want more of them. I need more of them. I need to encourage more people to get into the energy industry and the oil and gas industry, specifically into renewables, because I need lower emissions. We need to do that in order to meet our international commitments, but also because the global marketplace is looking for that. It's looking for sources of oil that are lower emitting. For instance, I'm very proud of the fact that, although we didn't have much to do with it, we found Hibernia. We're developing Hibernia. Hibernia continues to expand, and it has some of the lightest sweetest crude in the world.

One of the most important things we can do is to actually allow workers to lead this. I've been saying this for quite some time, and it's beginning to sink in with labour leadership in Alberta, in Saskatchewan and in Newfoundland and Labrador. They know I mean it. We have doubled UTIP, the union training and innovation program. We are specifically working with unions to not only fund them properly but to make sure that any training programs for new opportunities in the energy industry are led by them. They recognize them, they point them out, and we will help fund them.

I'm very serious about this.