Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2023

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Mr. Van Bynen, you have five minutes, please.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

In my province of Ontario, I've spoken to parents who are already experiencing fee reductions as a result of the government building out its national early learning and child care system. We know that one of the major challenges remaining is the creation of new spaces and how critical this is to ensuring that the system is there for all the parents who need care for their children.

Could you please update us on how this is going in my province and across the country in terms of space creation? What are you doing to make sure this will be a success?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you very much, Mr. Van Bynen, for the question.

You're absolutely right. Lowering fees is extraordinarily important. It's making a huge difference in the lives of Canadian families right across this country. The stories that I'm getting from people are remarkable in terms of how this is changing their lives and the lives of their families.

We recognize that reducing fees is not sufficient in and of itself. We have to grow the system. That's why we committed to increasing the number of spaces by 250,000 over the next four years. Across Canada so far, in partnership with provinces and territories, we have been able to increase the number of spaces by just over 50,000 in the last year and a half. In Ontario, that's about 33,000 additional spaces. That's where we are right now.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

We all saw in our committees how difficult the pandemic made it for community service organizations and the not-for-profits, both in placing additional demands on their operations and in the challenges that they were facing in supporting the pandemic recovery. Many of them relied on donations that simply weren't materializing.

Could you please share how you see them coping with these additional demands, and the role that a program like the community service recovery fund can play in supporting their networks?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Certainly.

I'm sure every member of this committee heard from their local community organizations in the charitable sector that they, too, were hugely impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. At a time when we were asking them to do even more and communities were relying on them more than ever, they had—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order. There's a problem with translation. I'm hearing French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mrs. Falk, did you have your hand up? Is it the translation? I was getting feedback.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'm hearing French, and I'm on the English channel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll hold for a moment. It has been corrected.

Minister, you have the floor.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

They were relied on at a point in time when they had even fewer resources. My predecessor in this role, Minister Hussen, did some very extensive consultation and engagement with the charitable sector following the initiation of the emergency community services fund to see what was next.

What we heard loud and clear from them was that they needed support to help recover from the pandemic, particularly for budget items that don't normally get supported through grants and project funding. Whether that's with regard to HR, IT or mental health supports for their staff, they were asking for a fund that would help them get their organizations back on track and help them be transformative for the 21st century.

That's what the CSRF is all about. I think there's a huge opportunity here for the charitable and not-for-profit sector to help them move into the 21st century in a more sustainable way.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I know that the budget provides for a significant investment in benefits delivery modernization. Can you tell me what safeguards are in place to avoid the pitfalls that are characterized in large IT projects?

Similar to that would be what was experienced with the Phoenix pay system. What types of defence mechanisms do you have in place to avoid significant breakdowns?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

The benefits delivery modernization initiative is a really important one. Currently, our old age security platform is over 60 years old. It's really in need of an upgrade. BDM is looking to have a more modern way to deliver the over $100 billion in benefits that we deliver to Canadians every single year.

The government has learned a lot of lessons from previous IT procurement. I think the top one is that you need to run both systems in parallel. You can't turn one off until you're very confident that the other one is functioning. There are many different initiatives that are in place to ensure that the government is doing things in the right way.

This is a very large IT procurement. It's a very large IT project that is vitally important for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, in our previous exchange, I found it interesting that you acknowledged that it makes no sense for people to wait six months to receive their employment insurance benefits. However, I find it disturbing that you deny the problem, that you deny that this phenomenon is prevalent right now in the Service Canada system.

You tell us that this is unacceptable and that we should forward problematic applications to your office. That is not the point, Minister. If I could, I would table the entire relevant press review for the last 18 months. This is not a new problem. The processing times are unacceptable, and it is quite widespread. Currently, a total of 975,000 files are still pending in the system, whereas the usual norm is 200,000. That would be a backlog of about three years.

You have asked for funding. Of course, the economic statement announced $1 billion to improve Service Canada, but that will have to be passed in the budget.

I just have one question for you: what do you intend to do to ensure that the processing time for applications is reasonable for all workers?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

With all due respect, Ms. Chabot, I never said there were no problems. I was saying that the figures needed to be clarified. I believe that the figures you are putting forward exceed the real numbers. I have always said that it is unacceptable for a person to wait six months. There is no doubt about that.

I have applied for the funds, and they are already in the budget. We don't have to wait for it to be accepted, because it was in the fall economic update, which is the equivalent of a budget. The point was indeed to improve the situation.

The backlog you are talking about is not people waiting for benefits. A majority of them have received their benefits, but there are changes that need to be made in their file. For some people it's one payment more or less, but in the vast majority of cases it's personal information that we have to update. These are not necessarily people who are waiting for benefits.

Service Canada's main objective is to ensure that people receive their benefits as quickly as possible. For me, as for you, the most important thing is to fix the system. What we see...

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

What are you going to do, Minister? That was my question.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

As I said, Ms. Chabot, we are going to...

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to go back to eradication of poverty and Canada's commitments to the SDG 2030 agenda.

As you know, the NDP are in favour of a guaranteed livable basic income. This call was certainly a test case when CERB came to be. I was just reading today the annual B.C. child poverty report card from First Call Child and Youth Advocacy Society. They mentioned that “all provinces and territories saw large decreases in their child poverty rates between 2019 and 2020” because of pandemic benefits. It goes on to say that “without continuing investments into children and families” rates will likely rise again.

Minister, what lessons will this Liberal government take away to maintain and to build on the gains made in poverty reduction throughout the pandemic and to ensure that half a million children—at least—do not fall back into poverty?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

I share your passion for reducing poverty amongst children in Canada. It's one of the reasons I'm so proud of our government for bringing forward the Canada child benefit. It has had such a dramatic impact on reducing child poverty rates in this country.

I'm also really proud about the $30 billion that we've invested into early learning and child care. We know—and I've heard from so many women across this country—that when child care fees were as expensive as they were just a year ago, it meant that so many women couldn't enter the workforce. I've heard from women in every province and territory who have said that, because of the child care fee reductions, they can go back into the workforce for the first time, earn a living and support their families in a way that just wasn't possible before. I think that's a really exciting initiative.

Then, of course, there are lots of lessons to be drawn from the pandemic in terms of how we can have a more fair and more equitable society. I think those are being analyzed right now

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Minister, you mentioned the Canada child benefit. As you know, my colleague out of Winnipeg Centre, Leah Gazan, has been really fighting hard against the clawbacks to the Canada child benefit. I wonder if you could update us on whether the government is actively ensuring that those families do not lose any of their very important income supports.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

It's certainly something that has been drawn to my attention. Of course, the decision on this rests with the Canada Revenue Agency and with Finance Canada.

As you know, the CCB is income-tested. As someone's income increases, the amount of the CCB they're allocated decreases. This is a really important aspect of the program. However, I understand that this does have an impact on families who saw only a temporary increase to their incomes. It's something that we continue to explore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll now conclude the first hour with Ms. Ferreri for five minutes, and then we'll do the 15-minute add-on.

Ms. Ferreri, you have five minutes, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again, Minister. I'd like to talk about your mandate letter and the part where it says to “ensure the voices and needs of children are represented in our Government's agenda, as we work to make Canada the best place to grow up” and to “ensure mental health supports are accessible to children and youth as they recover from the impact of the pandemic.”

The “Raising Canada” report of 2022 from Children First Canada sheds light on the reality that “one-third of kids in Canada do not enjoy a safe and healthy childhood.” Canada ranks 30th out of 38 affluent nations for protecting the well-being of children, according to UNICEF, which is a significant drop from 12th place in 2007. “As a country, we have been going in the wrong direction for far too long.”

Minister, I know you love to talk about child care, but that is for up to age six. I'm curious to know what policies your ministry has updated to support the mental health of children over the age of six.