Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2023

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Absolutely.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

For example—quickly, because we're running out of time—would you support efforts at the federal level to tie federal infrastructure funding to municipalities to results on the ground, getting approvals in place, speeding up the process? Even the CMHC reports that we need to speed up the approvals process at the municipalities.

Would you agree with that kind of approach?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the member hasn't really looked at what we have presented in terms of the housing accelerator fund. That's exactly what we intend to do: to help municipalities remove the barriers that prevent them from adding more housing supply across the country.

It's unfortunate because I was hoping that your party would actually support that effort because you always talk about gatekeepers. That was an effort for us to work collaboratively with municipalities to remove those barriers to development. You all voted against it, and here you are talking about municipalities' preventing development. We have a $4-billion program that is meant to help deal with exactly the problem you highlight—which I agree with—but you won't support the solution.

It's very ironic—

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Would it matter if—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—and I hope you change your mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Long, you have five minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Thank you to the minister and everybody else for coming this afternoon. I appreciate what you do for us and for all Canadians.

I'll give you a hockey analogy. I do that often—maybe too much. You know, if I inherited a hockey team that, for the previous eight years, didn't spend a cent on marketing or enticing season ticket holders, and then I took that team and came up with a plan to increase my fan base and sell more tickets.... Those plans take time.

I know Ms. Bowers made the point last time we talked to CMHC, and it did stick with me, that CMHC wasn't in the housing business until 2015-16. These programs do take time. Sure, we have a serious situation across our country. People do need homes and people need homes that are affordable. I certainly applaud what we're doing. I think we're on the right track. We're making the right investments.

I came into politics when housing agreements were basically expired. Non-profits didn't know what was going to happen next. We came forth. We renewed and extended those agreements. We came up with a Canada housing benefit and the federal coinvestment fund. I don't know of a project in my riding.... Sure, it's bureaucratic.

Ms. Bowers, we talked about how I want to see CMHC become more entrepreneurial and less bureaucratic, and I know you take that point. I can name many projects in my riding that have benefited from CMHC's investment and from our government's investment.

Minister, you've been in the riding several times. I want to focus right now on the rapid housing initiative. I know we've had two successful rounds. We have round three. We just recently announced a $3.6-million investment to support 12 transitional housing units for Coverdale Centre for Women. It's a wonderful project. I want more of them in the riding. I certainly recognize that through budget 2022 we've made historic investments through the extension of the rapid housing initiative. I think it's a great program.

Minister, can you provide us with an update on the rollout of the investments made in budget 2022? Thank you.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

In terms of the national housing coinvestment fund, you've heard from President Romy Bowers that, halfway into the 10-year national housing strategy, that program has been able to get half of the results. They have the results that they were supposed to get halfway through the strategy.

In terms of the rapid housing initiative, because of the success of the first and second rounds, we're seeing that budget 2022 has again allocated $1.5 billion to the third round of the rapid housing initiative. This has been a really successful program for municipalities and non-profits to rapidly build deeply affordable homes for the most vulnerable. If you look at the money that we're bringing forward through the national housing coinvestment fund, it's $2.9 billion from future years to now, so that we can get more money out the door and build over 22,000 deeply affordable housing units.

I would say on all of the efforts and allocations in budget 2022, the effort is being made to either get the money out the door or to build the partnerships that are necessary to then flow the money. I'm very excited about the housing accelerator fund. I think it will make a huge and sustained difference beyond the life of the program, for example.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

I'm going to let you continue.

I just want to talk about the accelerator fund. Certainly, my community of Saint John—Rothesay is excited about that fund. I think it will be very helpful, whether it's through organization or land acquisition, or what have you.

In your best estimate, when do you think we'll see that fund?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I would say in the next few weeks we will come out with a public announcement on moving forward. I expect, following that, there'll be engagement with municipalities, local governments and indigenous communities on how they can access that program.

This is a key commitment that we made to Canadians. The federal government will be there to become a partner to municipalities, not just in investing in affordable housing, which is what the rest of the national housing strategy programs do, but in creating systems changes so that we can unlock additional housing supply across the spectrum, from deeply affordable homes to rental units to attainable homes. That $4 billion will be invested in those system barriers that prevent more housing from being built in Canada.

You heard previously the reference to the need to build 3.5 million additional homes by 2030. We have a gap in supply, and the housing accelerator fund is one of the ways in which our government is ensuring that we not only build more housing through our other programs, but we also invest directly in local governments, municipalities and indigenous communities to create those systems changes that will unlock additional housing. Even beyond the life of the program those changes will result in more housing supply over many years to come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Mr. Trudel, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry, Minister, but it's a little bit mind-boggling to hear you say that halfway through the National Housing Strategy, we've achieved half of what we wanted to achieve and in five years we'll have achieved the other half. It's not that simple.

The Federal Housing Advocate, whom you yourself appointed, said that 35,000 units were built and 60,000 were renovated in the first five years. So we're a long way from 480,000.

I would very much like to hear you explain to me how you are calculating the 480,000 housing units that you mentioned, because I have no idea what you are talking about.

Let's look for solutions anyway. We have admitted that there is a crisis and that the strategy is not working, but there are some things that are working.

The Rapid Housing Initiative, or RHI, has been applauded by many housing organizations in Quebec and around the world. It is a program that allows for the rapid creation of housing, but is seriously underfunded.

Have you considered rethinking the whole strategy and redistributing the money from the programs in a different way?

For example, I don't see how the National Housing Co-Investment Fund, which creates $2,000 rental units in Montreal, helps us. The poorest people can't afford such housing. We could rethink the whole strategy, take all the money invested and put it into a program like the RHI, which forces developers to build housing quickly that people can live in quickly.

Is this an option you have considered, Minister?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, there's a lot in there.

I don't agree with the member's characterization that housing that is built through the coinvestment fund is unaffordable. The whole point of the coinvestment fund is to build deeply affordable homes, so I don't agree with that.

He also talked about how we have established that the national housing strategy's not working. I don't agree with that. The numbers show that not only have our investments so far resulted in 480,000 homes built or repaired through $36 billion in investments, but we know the number of families that have been helped in Quebec. Over 409,000 families in Quebec have been impacted by our federal programs directly, either through rental supplements or through housing.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Minister, do you consider a $2,000 rental unit in Montreal to be affordable housing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I was referring to the coinvestment fund.

You said the coinvestment fund results in a $2,000 unit. That's not the case. It's much more affordable than that. I think you're referring to another program or some other building.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

No. I could send you the article that appeared in the newspaper about this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

Ms. Kwan, to conclude, you have two and a half minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

I want to turn to a different issue: the Canada housing benefit.

The Canada housing benefit is clear in that it is meant to target people with the lowest incomes. However, the government changed the criteria. On the government's own website in November 2020—and even as late as December 27—it did not say that people on social or rental assistance who are having their rent paid directly to the landlord would be excluded from this program. This was added, I think, around February 3. Consequently, people now applying are no longer eligible.

Why is the government excluding people on income assistance and disability from being eligible for the $500 housing benefit? When was this decision made, and by whom? Why was this only posted on the government's website in February? The overriding question is this: Who is this housing benefit for, when the government is intentionally excluding the lowest-income people? It's not that they aren't qualified because of their income. They're not qualified because their rent is paid directly to the landlord, as a result of the program they're in—it's usually income assistance.

Why is that?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

This program is crucial for helping almost two million Canadian renters with the cost of rent. This $500 top-up will help people. It's on top of the existing Canada housing benefit.

In terms of the income thresholds, they're intended to—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to interrupt you for a second.

It's not about the threshold. It's not in the legislation. It does not say that people on income assistance, or in provincial or territorial rental assistance programs—those having their rent paid directly to the landlord—would be disqualified from this program. It does not say that in the legislation. However, in or around February, the government changed the criteria and added that to the website.

How come that was put in there? Who made that decision?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The eligibility criteria for this benefit is the same across the country. It is meant to ensure access to the benefit in each province and territory.

In terms of the particular nuance brought up by the member, I'm happy to have officials get back to her on that. However, I know the criteria were set up in consultation with folks to ensure equal access to—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is the minister saying he didn't make that change?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. That concludes your time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Perhaps I can get the answer in writing from the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That's fine. He can provide the answer.

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Thank you, Minister and departmental officials, for appearing.

Committee members, before we adjourn, we have the news release on the Black community study. Is it the wish of the committee to accept it? You all received it a couple of days ago. It's about the report being tabled in the House.