Evidence of meeting #82 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was youth.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Are there any recommendations you would make with respect to the administration of the program, the bureaucracy, in order to make it more efficient?
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
I appreciate the question. I don't think I'm in a position to comment too much on that. Obviously, with all programs where funding is involved, there is some due diligence necessary, and forms. I think most employers and applicants are accepting of that circumstance.
For us, the recommendations that we think might make the most sense are exploring the full-year eligibility and exploring how we could inform employers earlier in the process that they're eligible so that they can continue to compete and hire top talent.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.
Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us.
I'll go to Mr. Rempel first.
Mr. Rempel, I'm going to try to ask questions that are related to what you outlined, but I would also note that the focus of the study we are conducting is the Canada summer jobs wage subsidy program and that its purpose is to determine how changes can be made to that program. Questions have been raised about its funding and terms.
Unless I misunderstood you, you're suggesting that we could combine the work-integrated learning and skills program with the Canada summer jobs program. I'd like you to explain to me the benefits of combining those two programs, even though they're funded separately and, in some respects, have different objectives as well.
As you know, the federal learning and skills program doesn't apply in Quebec because we have our own learning and skills development agreements and programs.
Consequently, Canada summer jobs is the program that interests me. I'd like to know how we could improve its operation, flexibility and especially its funding. As we see it, increasing demands will be made on this program. We've seen it and can observe it in our riding offices. However, funding for it has remained stagnant, or has barely exceeded pre-pandemic levels, and that has caused problems. We know that funding has fallen to $400 million, nearly one third of what it was in the budget that was introduced in the unique circumstances of the pandemic.
In addition, Canada summer jobs allows young, full-time students to hold full-time employment for a specified period of time because that suits them. For employers, as regards programs, there are a lot of day camps, for example. Many employers and community organizations have summer employment programs and need students in order to support their projects.
I'm trying to get a clearer understanding of what you're proposing. As I understand it, the idea would be to combine these programs. How would that benefit the Canada summer jobs program?
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
Thank you very much for the question.
Just as a point of clarity, I don't think that CEWIL is proposing that we combine the programs. It's simply suggesting that there might be a way to adjust some of the eligibility requirements to thoughtfully harmonize meeting the objectives of government across two different programs. For example, with the Canada summer jobs grant program, I think the average funding is closer to eight weeks of employment, whereas a traditional co-op experience for a post-secondary student might be much longer than that. If we wanted to find ways and opportunities, like in that example, to achieve the goals of both programs, it may make sense to review the programs and the review process through that lens.
I do want to comment that these programs are designed for different audiences in some cases. Different employers are eligible under different programs.
I just admit that occasionally there's some overlap in that. If we wanted to be thoughtful in achieving two goals at the same time, we could review some of the eligibility of the existing program structures. The length of funding available might be a consideration. Another might be some work-integrated learning students who meet industry needs. It could be working in a part-time capacity, which again wouldn't be eligible with the current rules of the Canada summer jobs program.
I hope that helps clarify. Thank you for the question.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you very much.
As you know, we can first set objectives in conjunction with the Canada summer jobs program and then observe the results. As regards the eight-week employment period you're referring to, it has to be said that it's often the result of the projects that we see.
Non-profit organizations, small businesses and municipalities will generally seek employment periods longer than eight weeks. However, they're granted eight weeks for funding-related reasons. I tend to agree with you that eight weeks may not be long enough for a project designed to meet community and learning needs and to provide work experience.
That being said, as a result of funding issues, we're more likely to see a decrease in the number of working hours. One of your recommendations is that the eight-week period be extended. The program runs longer than eight weeks, but, as I understand it, only eight weeks are subsidized.
Another of your recommendations is that the calendar be adjusted to accommodate the situation of students enrolled in post-secondary education. We've already heard about this possibility. We know that high school calendars aren't the same as those of the colleges and universities. I think that offering the program earlier is a positive point, and that's a recommendation that we could get behind.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm just going to ask some quick statistics questions of Mr. Dale and then I'll go to Mr. Rempel.
I note, Mr. Dale, that the Canada summer jobs program says on the Government of Canada website that the program “aims to provide flexible and holistic services to help all young Canadians develop the skills and gain paid work experience to successfully transition into the labour market.”
It was concerning to hear you say that there are groups that are under-represented in the labour market that have a harder time entering.
Before I ask a little bit more about that, did I hear correctly that 60% of the open jobs do not require high school education?
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
Let me just check my notes.
There are 58.1% of job vacancies that require a high school diploma or less, as of the most recent data.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
It's a diploma or less.
I have another statistical question.
You mentioned about the earnings. In the last meeting on this, I was interested in the gender split on earnings. Can you share that? You had an overall number, but what's the gender split?
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Dale, you were on mute for all of that.
You'll have to go back to the gender split on earnings.
Director General, Labour Market, Education and Socio-Economic Wellbeing Statistics, Statistics Canada
I don't have that on hand, but we would be happy to give that to the committee in writing.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Okay. Then just to go back to the other demographics, I would like to hear that for under-represented groups as well. If you have some information on it, that would be great.
I want to go then to Mr. Rempel, to talk about this objective of the summer jobs program for folks to have the skills and the ability to transition into the labour market.
What are some of the challenges that students share with you in dealing with moving from their summer jobs grant over to the labour force? Does it vary by gender or other demographics?
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
I don't think I'd be in the position to answer what our membership is hearing from the students directly. The feedback and recommendations that I wanted to share are just from the members of the CEWIL community, primarily those who work in higher education institutions and how they've interacted and what they've experienced with their students and their employers who are interested in using the Canada summer jobs program.
My apologies for not being able to answer that directly.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That's all right, Mr. Rempel.
They don't report back on the experiences of any of their students when they're coming forward to your organization. They're just looking more at what their needs are to meet their objectives. The employers are talking about their objectives and needs. Is that right?
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
Yes...in some ways. I'll just explain how our membership would be involved with the recruitment process, which might involve employers leveraging the program.
Many colleges, polytechnics and universities across this country have job boards that are available to their students and have a close-knit relationship with employers and industry partners who are recruiting students from those academic institutions.
In the scenarios where employers are looking to access the wage subsidy through this program, they may very well also be recruiting through the academic institution. Similarly, students would be accessing their career services department to connect with employers who are actively seeking in the summertime, and the feedback that they receive would be through just the regular conversations that an institution has with their employer base who are using the services at the school.
In the context of work-integrated learning, one of the recommendations that we're offering is around quality work experiences. It's our belief in CEWIL that having structure around a work experience and having educational elements and facilitated learning that is in the spirit of the relationship between a higher education institution, the student and the employer, tends to yield the highest return on skills acquisition and growth and development through a student cohort. This is obviously what we work towards and champion at CEWIL.
It's not to say that summer jobs or part-time jobs that don't have that academic structure and support can't be meaningful. They absolutely can. We just know that, when there are supports, there's an educational environment and the post-secondary institution is involved, those are the ones where we can have thoughtfully structured, meaningful, high-quality work experiences for our learners and students, and for the employers as well.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That's great.
I have just one quick question then. What data is captured on your end? Are there post-surveys for the partners you work with? What kind of information is available? Ultimately, the goal is to make sure these folks can transition into the labour market, so I'm just wondering how you measure that.
I'll take this opportunity to say that HealthCareCAN came to see me yesterday about stipends for research students, the amount of good work they do and how little they get paid, so I'm also interested to know if you hear anything about this correlation between employment and housing right now for students, because we know it's a very difficult time.
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
I don't think that many members of the CEWIL community or post-secondary institutions are explicitly tracking which of their students are receiving summer jobs or the employers who are receiving the stipend. I'm not aware, personally, of any line of sight that would offer that insight. If it did exist, it would likely be more localized to individual academic institutions. It wouldn't be information that CEWIL would be collecting or asking for.
I'm afraid I can't answer that question for you directly, but thank you.
Liberal
October 18th, 2023 / 6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start, if I could, with Dr. Rempel.
You're in the hot seat, Dr. Rempel.
In 2023, for the Canada summer jobs, the top five national priorities for the program were to focus on youth with disabilities; Black and other racialized youth; indigenous youth; small business and not-for-profit organizations that self-report as having leadership from groups that are under-represented in the labour market; and small business and not-for-profit organizations in environmental sectors.
You may have heard, Dr. Rempel, that Canada is in the midst of a housing crisis right now. I'm wondering what you think about the idea of maybe changing the priorities—altering them, adjusting them, adding to it, maybe—to reflect national priorities and urgent national needs, such as housing or maybe even organizations that support addiction and mental health treatment, those kinds of things. Would you consider that?
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
Thank you for the question. I'm in the hot seat indeed.
I think the space that we're most qualified to speak to is our line of business, which is supporting students in work-integrated learning. In the spirit of our mandate and sphere of opinion on government policy, we do appreciate and absolutely value all wage subsidy programs for youth and for work-integrated learning. I can say with confidence that our members are very appreciative. Employers require it, and it inspires them to continue to reinvest in our youth through these programs.
From that lens and that vantage point, I can share that we appreciate the programs, but I don't think CEWIL would be in a position to comment on the other elements of the question. Thank you.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Okay. Let me try this, then. You're not wanting to comment or give an opinion on whether these should be considered priorities within the program. Do you think the summer jobs program could be adjusted or could be used as a tool to focus on...?
Let's take the labour shortage, for example, in the housing sector. The labour shortage is one of the big challenges we have in the housing sector. We just don't have enough electricians or carpenters. We don't have enough people in skilled labour and the skilled trades. That's not a secret to anybody, I think.
Do you think the Canada summer jobs program would need changing, or could be changed, to maybe try to help address those issues? You understand the system better than I do, I'm sure.
President, Co-operative Education and Work-Integrated Learning Canada
Thank you for the question. I probably don't understand the system or how the program decisions are created any better than you do. I'm afraid I wouldn't feel in a position to be able to comment on that.
Our awareness, working with youth who are traditionally in co-op and working in great learning experiences, is that it is difficult and it is competitive. We do need employers and industry partners to continue participating and creating high-quality work experiences for our students. They rely on it. All programs that support that mandate and support student success are programs that we appreciate.