Human Resources Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[Karen Beaubier]

I'm the opposite. I'm a small organization, so I have that flexibility already. I could work within both parameters, quite frankly, but it would be helpful to have someone in the office on a year-round basis, or for a few months of the year. That would definitely help me out, too.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay. That's pretty much my time.

Thank you very much, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Hepfner.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Creamer.

One of the recommendations made was that the program should offer greater flexibility. During the pandemic, this was indeed the case. I would also point out that there was more money. In my opinion, there are differences in terms of the flexibility offered. We have fewer positions, but more hours. I don't think these things even out.

Mr. Creamer, what does greater flexibility in terms of Canada Summer Jobs projects and full-time employment mean to you in concrete terms?

[Paul Creamer]

When we talk about flexibility, for our organization it would mean longer terms. We were approved for two positions at eight weeks each, but ultimately we needed those positions for 16 weeks. The full cost of the position, which we weren't funded for, ended up falling on the township.

Given our location and our limited number of applications sometimes, if we aren't successful in recruiting for one position, flexibility could be that we could pivot to another position more easily.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

What effect does this have on the projects you put forward? You have been granted two positions for 8 weeks when you needed these positions for 16 weeks.

[Paul Creamer]

Again, I think it gets back to timing. If we had enough time and heads-up, we could plan and advertise accordingly. Without that notice and without that timing, if we're planning for 16 weeks and we only get approved for eight, we would probably be in a position where we need to continue with the 16-week plan and just fund the difference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes to conclude this round.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll direct my questions to Mr. Creamer this time.

In your opening presentation to us, you talked about wanting to recruit top talent and you didn't get any applications. I just wonder if you could expand a little bit on what attributes you're looking for when you say “top talent”? How do you recover from not being able to have applicants apply?

[Paul Creamer]

Thank you for the question.

I think every position is going to be different in terms of top talent. Any time I hire, I want to be able to go through multiple applicants to see who will be the best fit in terms of experience, who can contribute to our goals and meet the objectives of the position, and also be a good fit. Because I've been in this position, when I look at a good fit, I think it's someone who will get experience to help them towards a career as well.

When we don't get applicants or we get only one.... Last year we just cancelled the position.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You cancelled the position because you didn't get what you were looking for.

I have one last question, then. You mentioned that you didn't get that many applicants. What do young people do for work in your town?

[Paul Creamer]

I've never done a study on it, necessarily. I would think many young people are staying, if they're going to school or university. I'm not sure we've gotten the true reflection of what the potential applicant pool is, because we are advertising so late in the game.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

You feel that the lateness of the advertising is impacting your quality of top talent.

[Paul Creamer]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

I want to thank the panellists in the first round for appearing and providing detailed information on the subject matter.

We will now suspend for a couple of moments while we transition to the next panel of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll resume with the second panel.

From Sasamat Outdoor Centre, we have Ben Quinn. From STEM Camp, we have Kevin Cougler, founder and executive director; and Andrew Downing, director of operations. From the YMCA of Southwestern Ontario, we have Krista Gillespie, vice-president of youth engagement and employment.

Mr. Downing is appearing in the room with us. I welcome those appearing on screen, and I would remind them to please speak slowly in the official language of their choice. You have interpretation services available by using the icon at the bottom of your screen.

We will now begin with a five-minute opening statement by Mr. Quinn from Sasamat Outdoor Centre.

[Ben Quinn, Operations Manager, Sasamat Outdoor Centre]

Thank you very much, everybody, for the invitation to appear before this committee.

My name is Ben Quinn, and I am the operations manager at Sasamat Outdoor Centre.

Sasamat Outdoor Centre is an accredited member of the British Columbia Camps Association. We have been in operation since 1986, though we have had camping groups on Sasamat Lake going back to 1962 under our former camp name, Camp Wallace. We are also a member of the Association of Neighbourhood Houses of British Columbia, a non-profit, community-based organization and one of B.C.'s oldest registered charities. It was established in 1894.

Situated on beautiful Sasamat Lake, Sasamat Outdoor Centre is surrounded by enchanting natural forests that make the setting ideal for personal learning and growth. We offer a variety of day camp and overnight camp programs for children and youth ages four to 15. Our facilities and programs include high ropes challenge courses, canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, archery, shelter building, and a number of traditional summer camp programs that you'd expect to see at an outdoor summer camp. Our staff are well trained and passionate about outdoor education and child development. We strive to make every camper feel valued and included.

Sasamat has been fortunate to be a recipient of the Canada summer jobs wage subsidy program for many years. As a summer camp, we naturally attract youth in their early years of high school or post-secondary to our staff team. On average, we employ between 40 and 50 youth per summer who meet the criteria of the Canada summer jobs program.

As a non-profit organization, we have been very grateful for this program. The funding we receive makes a huge impact in offsetting our overall costs of running these camps, and it's an essential piece of funding that helps keep our programs affordable and accessible to as many families as possible.

Like many camps across the country, in recent years Sasamat Outdoor Centre has been financially vulnerable from the impacts of COVID-19 and subsequent rising costs across all areas of our operations. This year, we were hit with another financial hurdle when we received our funding from the Canada summer jobs program: It was, unexpectedly, less than half of what we had received in the previous year and about half of what our average funding amount has been in the last five years.

We understand from follow-up conversations that there was less of a pool of funds to go around in our area this year. However, as a non-profit that has come to rely on this funding year over year, this is a difficult challenge for us to overcome.

Needless to say, we are very thankful that this program exists and we hope it will continue for many years to come.

I want to thank you for your time. I'm happy to take any questions that you have now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Quinn.

We will hear from our next two groups, and then we will go to questions.

Mr. Cougler, you have the floor for STEM Camp.

[Kevin Cougler, Founder and Executive Director, STEM Camp]

Thank you very much.

Greetings, everyone.

My name is Kevin Cougler, and I'm the founder and executive director of STEM Camp, which has been a registered Canadian not-for-profit since 2015. I'd like to introduce you to Andrew Downing, who is our director of operations and is with you in person today. Thank you for the invitation to testify before this committee.

STEM Camp has participated in the Canada summer jobs program since 2016. To my knowledge, we're one of the largest participants across Canada, having employed approximately 2,028 summer staff during this period.

STEM Camp is a summer day camp that provides programming in the areas of science, technology, engineering and mathematics. In 2023, we operated in 54 locations with 12,416 enrolments. In total, 55,906 campers have benefited from attending STEM Camp, which is an opportunity that would not exist without this program.

The Canada summer jobs program has made significant improvements since STEM Camp first participated in 2016. These include, but are not limited to, the ability to duplicate and edit grant applications, receiving final project payments in a much more timely fashion and having only one project officer assigned to an organization, instead of one officer for each project, which is significant for an organization the size of STEM Camp.

While these improvements have been noteworthy and appreciated, I would like to respectfully submit some suggestions for program enhancement based upon our experience.

Number one, we recommend allowing an organization to refill a position after an employee quits or is terminated for cause without sacrificing the subsidy. Currently, if a worker quits after four weeks and a new employee is hired, the subsidy cannot be used for either worker because they have not achieved the six-week minimum employment requirement. This causes the organization undue financial hardship. It should also be noted that, unfortunately, there is an ever-increasing trend of youth not fulfilling their contractual employment obligations. I'm sure my colleagues Ben and Krista will attest to that fact as well.

Number two, declaration forms can't be submitted until the employment start date. For STEM Camp, this results in manually submitting over 400 forms on the very first day of camp. If you've ever been to camp, you'll know that camp is very busy the first day. It would be helpful to be able to submit these forms when the employee is hired, which would also result in receiving advances prior to the first pay period. Currently, by having to wait to submit declaration forms on the first day of employment, employers must wait sometimes for three pay periods before the advance is received. This places an organization the size of STEM Camp in a significant financial deficit for many weeks. Our recommendation is to allow the declaration forms to be submitted as soon as the employee is hired. If the forms could be submitted digitally instead of manually entering the information from each form, this would save us countless hours of typing.

Number three, we recommend re-establishing Service Canada checks and balances to ensure that the terms of the CSJ agreement are being followed by every organization that receives the subsidy. These used to take place in greater number prior to COVID. After the pandemic, I imagine resources were stretched, but we haven't seen an awful lot of checks and balances to ensure that the program dollars are being spent according to their intention and their contractual obligation.

Number four, it's increasingly difficult to find Canadian students to fill summer camp positions, and it would be helpful for employers to be able to hire people who are on visas, whether these are straight work visas or student visas, especially when Canadians cannot be found to fill those positions. We turn away dozens of qualified applicants each year who are here on student visas and would be fantastic workers.

In closing, the cost of operating a summer camp far exceeds what a parent is willing to pay to send their child to camp. This is not unique to STEM Camp. Most summer camps would not exist without the CSJ program, including STEM Camp. The program has provided us with the ability to create and deliver fun, educational summer programming that inspires children to learn about STEM, encourages them to pursue STEM education subjects and, more importantly, helps solve current and anticipated Canadian labour shortages.

Supporting and increasing investment in the CSJ program means supporting Canadian youth in their quest to become the innovators of tomorrow.

That concludes my testimony. Thank you for this opportunity.

I do have some other recommendations that, due to time constraints, I'm not able to include, but I would be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Cougler, you could probably capture those during questioning.

Thank you for your testimony.

Now we will go to Ms. Gillespie for five minutes.

[Krista Gillespie, Vice-President, Youth Engagement and Employment, YMCA of Southwesten Ontario]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am joining you today from outside London, Ontario, on the traditional territory of the Anishinabe, Haudenosaunee and Attiwandaron peoples.

Thank you to the members of the committee for inviting the YMCA to share our experience and recommendations.

My name is Krista Gillespie. My pronouns are she/her. I'm the vice-president of youth engagement and employment programs at the YMCA of Southwestern Ontario.

I am here to speak to the impact of the Canada summer jobs program on youth who participate through our local YMCA, as well as 36 other YMCAs across Canada. The YMCA is a leading Canadian charity with a focus on health and well-being. As an employer, we understand that work is an important aspect of health and wellness, and can provide focus and meaning. At the YMCA, through the Canada summer jobs program, young people are engaged in high-quality, high-value and meaningful work experiences.

We're encouraged by the committee's commitment to undertake this study, as we believe it provides an excellent opportunity to explore and, hopefully, build on the strengths of this remarkable program. We have several ideas on how to build on those strengths, but let me start by sharing that the charitable sector is where a great career can begin for young people, as we support civic engagement and a sense of belonging.

Youth are at a greater risk of unemployment than the general population is. Many young people are entering the labour market for the first time and lack work experience.

At the YMCA, Canada summer jobs youth are often employed as camp counsellors. Other positions may include membership services staff, facilities and maintenance, lifeguards and ECEs. This year, we were able to hire a digital coordinator. Young employees in these fields gain important skills, such as leadership, conflict resolution, communication and problem-solving. These are foundational roles that get youth started and support them throughout their entire career trajectory. This entry point facilitates a transition to longer-term careers. In my own experience, we often hire people through Canada summer jobs and see them return for a second year, when they grow in leadership and level of responsibility.

We have five recommendations to build on the strengths of the Canada summer jobs program.

One, evolve the Canada summer jobs program to a year-round youth jobs program, with flexibility for part-time positions. This would facilitate access to the labour market, especially given that the pursuit of education is departing from the traditional “semester one, semester two, break” model. This would allow employers to offer a more comprehensive and diverse mix of roles that would be appealing to a larger and more diverse number of young people.

Two, introduce predictable, multi-year funding that would enable employers to better plan and to have meaningfully engaged youth employees. The earlier the funding is announced, the earlier we can begin recruitment for Canada summer jobs positions. This allows young people to plan accordingly.

Three, enhance the administrative efficiencies of the program. I certainly agree with many of the things that Mr. Cougler already identified. A few points we have include removing the requirement of detailed reporting of short absences, allowing for a start date window without requiring additional paperwork if there is a change to the start date in the original application, and consolidating reporting to not need an individual report for each staff member, especially when hiring multiple staff for the same role.

Four, include funding for paid mental health or sick days. At the YMCA, our goal is to support our youngest workers and ensure they have healthy and productive work experiences. Including a mental health or sick day allocation in the program would benefit young people who encounter and experience a variety of health-related challenges.

Five, expand hiring to include not just Canadian residents but also those who have a work permit, including international students.

As an organization that employs thousands of young people annually, the YMCA is continuously striving to provide young employees with great job experiences. We believe the Canada summer jobs program offers an impactful experience to young people in our communities, and we look forward to building on that program's success.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillespie.

We will now begin the first round of questions with Mr. Aitchison, for six minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start with Ms. Gillespie.

I want to clarify something. You mentioned that your organization does employ young people. Does the YMCA of Southwestern Ontario also engage in employment placement practices, like helping young people find work with different companies?

[Krista Gillespie]

The short answer is yes. We do have separate employment programs that do help support youth and people with identified barriers into work. Essentially, they are pre-employment training programs.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That's great.

As part of that program, do you...? Where I'm going with this is that the YMCA of Simcoe/Muskoka actually engages with employers of the region and tries to address the existing needs, that kind of stuff.

Is that something that your YMCA does, as well?