Evidence of meeting #83 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was organization.
A video is available from Parliament.
Manager, Human Resources Operations and Total Rewards, Kerry's Place
I don't have any specific knowledge on that.
Kevin, I don't know if you do.
Vice-President, Strategic Initiatives, Kerry's Place
I know that we do provide information around the filing of their initial tax forms, obviously, when they begin their employment.
I know, Ms. Zarrillo, that you've asked this question of previous witnesses, and we would certainly be happy to provide information flow-through from the government around taxes and entitlements. We would definitely see that as a value added for the employees, so we would be happy to pass that along. We don't currently provide that above and beyond the normal tax filings that they need to make to CRA in terms of their source deductions.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That would be great.
Madame Larocque, coming back to you, you obviously see a lot of candidates who come through. What I noticed in the data that we got at the beginning of this study was that two-thirds—or the majority—of the placements are women and girls. I'm wondering if you could give us some insight into that. Do you see that same gender split playing out? Why do you think that happens?
Manager, Human Resources Operations and Total Rewards, Kerry's Place
Honestly, it just seems to be a trend for the type of sector we're in. The developmental services sector in general just tends to be quite female-heavy. It just seems to be a trend. I'm not sure what else to say to that. It is quite female-heavy. I think it's just that caregiving side of things.
We do get a higher population of women applying for these positions, but the same consideration is given to all applicants through our recruitment processes. We obviously base our recruitment on skills, experience and meeting the qualifications of the job posting itself, so it's just the way that it seems to have panned out over the years.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you so much.
You spoke a bit about wages. In the not-for-profit sector in general, usually there are not a lot of extra opportunities to enhance or to pay above the minimum wage on these summer jobs grants. Do you have any insights for me on how we could correct that through the Canada summer jobs grants?
Manager, Human Resources Operations and Total Rewards, Kerry's Place
I understand that the grants are, as I said, encompassing minimum wage, and I don't know if there's anything that can be done above that, but even just being able to offer a little more on top of minimum wage as a wage subsidy I think would help organizations like Kerry's Place. It's not something we budget for. We do try to pay a little more than minimum wage, but it still ends up being less than if we were to post a regular position. It still ends up being a little less than what we would pay someone else we've hired.
Again, I think that's an internal process we can work on, because I think we're still very stuck in a mindset that maybe we're hiring Canada summer jobs candidates and they're not doing 100% of the workload, but I think they are. There was this formula created on an internal perspective where we were offering 75% of the wages of a regular position. I think we can do better if it's something that we as an organization can start budgeting for, but in terms of the wage subsidy and whether there's any room to go above minimum wage, I think that's where we would be able to benefit a little more from the program.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.
Now we'll go to Ms. Ferreri for five minutes.
October 23rd, 2023 / 11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today to testify on our study of the Canada summer jobs program.
Obviously, I want to send a big thank you to Paul.
I saw some of my colleagues chuckle a little bit when they heard the municipality name of Douro-Dummer, but I wear it proud. It's where I'm from. It is a unique name, but it's what we are.
Paul, you gave some very concrete suggestions and feedback in terms of Canada summer jobs. I want to go through them and ensure that they make it to the report stage of this to improve the program.
Number one, you talked about earlier decisions and being notified early. This is Business 101. We cannot plan or make decisions if we don't know what we're dealing with. Number two, you mentioned the selection criteria. A lot of the programs for Canada summer jobs are not reflective of the applicant. In particular, the Township of Douro-Dummer or rural areas don't necessarily have the diversity that is required for some of these applications. Number three, you said that it was quite tedious, meaning that it was challenging for your staff. It would time out and you'd lose spots in the application and have to start all over again.
As somebody who runs a municipality, and as a treasurer, as you said, you understand bureaucracy. A lot of this is the same problem that we see in programs across the board, in all government programs. It is a real bureaucratic problem. There's more bureaucracy being done than there are actual results.
One thing you said was that this program is not maximizing its funds. From a treasurer's perspective, that is one of the things we want to talk about. Giving somebody money doesn't always give a return on investment if it's not invested properly. Could you expand on what you think that means? How efficient is the system from your perspective of working in a municipality? How efficient is the Canada summer jobs program?
Interim Treasurer, Corporation of the Township of Douro-Dummer
Thank you for your question.
On a lot of my comments, I think we're on the same page in the sense that I was trying to make my comments around how I would approach it if I were to review the program, and what I would change in order to maximize those funds.
I think one thing is that even if I look at our use case, the positions for which we were approved were positions that we would probably need to hire for whether we got the funding or not. The positions that we did get funding for were for our parks and recreation. We need those positions no matter what. I think where the funding for us would probably be more advantageous, and where we'd get greater value, would be for some positions that we wouldn't be hiring for unless we got this funding. That's where we could get further ahead as a township. One of the office positions that we did apply for was going to be doing records retention and things that we don't have the ability to do on a day-to-day basis.
If the scoring could account for that, that would be one way to do it. As I said, the planning and the timing would be the other huge advantage.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Thank you for that.
I think one of the big questions I have for you is about customer service standards. Did you have clear communication when you were doing this application? Did you have a sense of accountability and timely responses? As somebody, again, who works in a municipality, service standards are critical in being efficient for customers, which is what taxpayers are. As you said, there's no free money. It's taxpayers' money. We have to utilize it as efficiently as possible.
Did you find that the service standards in customer service were up to par when you were dealing with this program?
Interim Treasurer, Corporation of the Township of Douro-Dummer
Yes. Any time I had a question, the responses were quick and good.
Again, the challenge was around my question in mid-March about when we were going to get a response and find out. The person I was able to speak to said it wouldn't be until mid-April. It wasn't that the response wasn't quick. It was just that the ultimate decision wasn't quick.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
I think that would be something I'd push back on, and I would maybe challenge you on that, because to me, that isn't great customer service. If you have to keep following up, if they're not giving you the answers you need and you don't know how to manage what you're trying to manage, that could be improved. Do you agree?
Interim Treasurer, Corporation of the Township of Douro-Dummer
I'm not sure how to respond to that.
It would be nice to get a decision sooner.
Liberal
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would also like to thank our witnesses for being here today.
One of my favourite parts of the Canada summer jobs program is the amount of real engagement MPs can have with the local organizations. During the summer, we get to visit and see some of the students working in those jobs. Ontario Sailing is in my riding, so this summer I got to visit it. Their Canada summer jobs student Rachel Green qualified for the Pan Am Games, so I'd like to give her a little shout-out as they start that competition in Chile. I hope she does well.
The other thing I noticed in that office was that several of their more advanced staff had been Canada summer jobs students in the past. I found the same thing at different employers I went to. They engaged Canada summer jobs students, but they also had people who had been Canada summer jobs students in the past and who were now some of their core employees. I think some of the witnesses talked about this, as well—the success of the program.
I'd like to ask each organization whether they think that should continue to be the goal of Canada summer jobs. Is it to provide these sorts of opportunities and learning experiences for students, or should we also look at the labour market and what local communities need, in terms of workforce?
Mr. Spafford or Ms. Larocque, either of you could start.
Vice-President, Strategic Initiatives, Kerry's Place
Thank you for that question.
I would say it's the latter. Both are important, in terms of opportunities for youth, but it's also about looking at the local labour force and what's required.
Interim Treasurer, Corporation of the Township of Douro-Dummer
I would agree it's important for the youth. I can look back at my individual experience. I'm where I am in my career today because I was offered a summer student position with the Town of Whitby, way back when.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Ms. Beaubier, I have to tell you that I know Rutland very well. My in-laws live there, so I'm a fan of your part of Kelowna.
Executive Director, Uptown Rutland Business Association
Well, come by for a mural tour any time.
I agree with my counterparts here today. It's both aspects of it. For example, here in Rutland and Kelowna, we're having an extreme construction boom. Looking at the labour issues here would definitely be helpful.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
My second question is for each of you.
We've heard a bunch of examples of how things aren't working quite as well as they possibly could. If we simplified the process so each organization had an amount awarded during the summer, would you then have more flexibility in terms of how many students you hire, how long they work, and when they start? If you had that flexibility, would that resolve a lot of these issues?
Let's start again with Mr. Spafford.
Vice-President, Strategic Initiatives, Kerry's Place
As Nicole mentioned in response to a similar question earlier, it would certainly be a significant departure from the current process, where we're approved position by position. I think that would likely be similar to how flexibility was offered during COVID, when we were able to offer more flexible positions.
I think that is something we would need to work through, in terms of how exactly it would work. We would be able to offer, in that situation, more 16-week placements—for us, in particular, that's a big draw for candidates—and offer them throughout the year. That was another thing for us, as Nicole mentioned. Not being restricted to the summer was helpful during COVID.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Okay.
Mr. Creamer, you have 30 seconds. That leaves 30 seconds for Ms. Beaubier.
Interim Treasurer, Corporation of the Township of Douro-Dummer
I second that. It would definitely provide additional flexibility.
We'd have to see how it would play out. Typically, we are looking at very specific positions, given the size of our organization, but I imagine it would benefit larger organizations to have much more flexibility.
Liberal