Human Resources Committee on Oct. 25th, 2023

[Shawna Akerman]

Okay.

Imagine that it is October. I am doing my year-end around six locations.

I hired a camp director this year who is an EA at one of the schools. She was under 30—she is no longer—so I was able to pay her through the summer with that rate. Again, she's an educational assistant in the school system, so she makes a good salary. I gave her a percentage of the profit-sharing at the end. I had no idea how many grants I was going to get when I met her. I had no idea how many camps I could run. I have to get spaces in the schools, but I don't know which municipalities are going to approve me. One gave me three. One gave me 12. One gave me 15. One gave me 22. It was the same application to all of them every single time.

Your applications came out early this year, in December, while I was on my vacation, so during my vacation I filled out all the grants because I didn't want to miss it. Because of my neurodiversity, it takes me a lot longer to do things than other people. There's really no accessibility for that either.

I really love what I'm doing. I'm making a big change in the world. I'm opening up a college of psychotherapy, so I can train more therapists to offer more support.

Throughout the year I use as many programs as I can to get government money from to help as many people as possible. If you did this all year, I could do a lot more with a lot less of my energy.

That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Akerman, for your very candid observations.

We'll now go to Mr. Pederson.

[Gord Pederson, Executive Director, Société Place Maillardville Society]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before your committee. My name is Gord Pederson, and I’m pleased to be speaking today about the importance of the Canada summer jobs program to our organization, the students we hire and the lasting impact on our community.

I am the executive director of Société Place Maillardville Society, a small to mid-sized not-for profit organization that has been serving the community of Maillardville in the city of Coquitlam since 2001. We provide recreation and social programs for a diverse community, made up of a disproportionate number of single-parent, low-income and new Canadian families. The underlying focus of our programs is to provide families with a way to connect to their neighbourhood and feeling like they belong.

The highlight of our year is the beginning of our children’s summer day camps program. The secret to the success of our summer day camps is the students we hire through the Canada summer jobs program. Each year, we worry about what the student complement will look like, and each year we are always pleasantly surprised with the quality of students we receive.

As a not-for-profit, we can’t afford to match the salaries provided in the surrounding municipal sector, but we are able to provide $2 to $4 more per hour than the minimum wage. Although this means we have trouble competing for the most experienced students, we are still able to recruit quality students, often those with less experience but who are eager to be given a chance.

What we are able to provide each student by the end of the program is excellent training, mentorship, positive on-the-job experiences and wonderful memories. We are committed to the personal development of each student, with the intention to either retain them for future employment with us or to help develop their skills for employment elsewhere. Considering that most of our students are coming from our region, we firmly believe we are investing in making them better citizens for our community. Approximately 50% to 60% of our students each year are visible minorities from our community.

In our case, the real winner is our community. During the past summer, we were able to provide an exciting, low-cost and inclusive summer day camp program for approximately 460 children aged six to 12. The community demand for this popular program is extremely high and sold out in three hours, with a 15-person wait-list for each of the eight week-long camps.

For some parents, summer camps may be just an affordable child care option for working parents or a way to keep kids entertained during the summer, but for all the children participating, it becomes a fun, inclusive and engaging way to try new things, meet new friends and make memories that will last a lifetime. Going full circle, I’m proud to acknowledge that, over the years, we have had a number of past participants grow up to become volunteers and summer leaders, giving back to our organization and the community.

Mr. Chair, as your committee discusses the funding level for the 2024 program, please consider that the Canada summer jobs program is more than just a youth employment program. It has a positive, long-lasting impact on organizations and communities alike. For that, we are extremely grateful. The effects of any cuts to our organization will directly impact student staffing levels, training opportunities, program length and/or participant capacity, which would ultimately result in either service cuts or drawing from our society’s operational budget to cover shortfalls. To our community, it would mean a reduction in the number of children who would receive the benefits of this valuable service.

In closing, please consider the impact your decision will have not only on the students but to the organizations and communities like mine across Canada.

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Pederson, for your opening comments.

We will now open the floor to questions, beginning with Mrs. Gray for six minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here. I have a couple of questions, and I'd like to give each of the witnesses an opportunity to answer. I will circulate through and would ask, if possible, to maybe keep your answers a little tight so that we can get through a few things here.

My first question has to do with the application itself. We heard from other witnesses about the onerous part of it and how it maybe times out. It's really difficult. If you're also a senior who isn't really technological or perhaps someone with disabilities, it may not be very inclusive and accessible.

I'm just wondering if you can speak to the application itself and the time that it takes.

I will start first with Habitat for Humanity and then we'll go down the line.

[Sean Ferris]

I am fortunate enough not to submit the applications; however, the feedback from the team is that there is a learning curve to go through. Given that we've been in the program for a number of years, I would comment that we have learned and that the program has improved. It's not that it's not onerous but rather that we're used to it. It is repetitive, so we save our answers from the previous year and we reuse them. We have staff and volunteers who can support us in that effort.

Always streamlining a process and making it easier is something that we would support.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you.

Next, I'll go to Karma Country Camp.

[Shawna Akerman]

I would love it if you could keep our applications every year and renew them instead of filling out all of the same pieces. If you are doing it in different municipalities, can we have one big one, and then the different directives or whatever they're looking for could be separate applications.

Also, too, for the roles and responsibilities, you need to fill out like five different pieces for each role. Sometimes over the summer I want to do 10 roles per location, and 10 times nine is a lot. Is there a way that I can...? Again, I copy and paste it, but it takes time, and I do it myself. Funds for a team would be great.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

We'll go over to Mr. Pederson.

[Gord Pederson]

I've been doing this process for quite a number of years, and what I must admit is that it has improved a lot over time. It used to be that you would lose data quite easily. All it took was to go back one page, and you lost everything you did before.

It has changed somewhat, but it still comes down to preparing a lot beforehand. For people who have done it, as Sean was mentioning, you have it set up beforehand to make your application easier. I think that would be difficult for a novice person who is applying for the first time or who has applied only a few times. It would be a bit of a challenge in that regard.

A little bit of advice might be to have more of a pre-application checklist or maybe a list of the questions beforehand, so you can prepare for them beforehand. It would certainly make the process easier, especially for the people who are new to that process.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

The next question that I have has to do with reaching out to the government, the contact you might have. Have you reached out to them before with questions? What's the response time like?

For example, a lot of government departments have service standards. When the officials were here, we were questioning them about their service standards, and they were really unclear about what those service standards might be, although they said they had service standards without saying what they were.

Have you reached out? What is the timeline like for hearing back? Has that made it more difficult? Has it been really long lengths of time that it takes for them to get back to you? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Again, we'll go to Habitat for Humanity first.

[Sean Ferris]

I'll be direct, and I apologize.

When the program started, it was poor. It went to worse, and now it is extremely better. We are getting great response rates. We're getting timely responses, meaningful and productive responses, and less spin, so we're quite happy with the service we're getting today.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That's great. Thank you.

We'll go over to Karma Country Camp.

[Shawna Akerman]

I also agree. My service was wonderful. The response time was good.

Clarification of who has which grant.... They come in with numbers, not names, so it's hard to manage six different numbers.

In the end, I hire all of my staff as disabled, so I get the MERC back. I always have trouble with it, and even though I work with a bookkeeper and we do a payroll, there's always some discrepancy, so maybe even do the MERC and the funds differently so that I know, again, number-wise, where all the funds are allocated.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Pederson.

[Gord Pederson]

My experience recently has been really good. We have, as the others have mentioned, timely responses. Questions have been answered to our satisfaction, and there are no complaints from this end.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you very much.

I only have about 20 seconds, so maybe I'll just ask Ms. Akerman this. Part of the process with the scoring criteria is that 10 points are given for local priorities that the local MP would submit out of 100 points, so it's roughly 10%. There's a higher percentage that's for the priorities of the government.

Do you think it would be more beneficial to have the local priorities of the local MP be higher? What are your thoughts on that?

[Shawna Akerman]

I think it should be eighty-twenty. Your local MP knows what needs to be done in every community. If I'm taking those funds and I'm helping families whose kids are not going to school and are not employed, where are they going? They're going to be using your funds in your community. Let's get them out of the house. Let's get them in schools, in programs, in apprenticeship. Let's get them working because there are people who need employees, and we need to do that.

Definitely. Federal only has.... We need the provincial. They know what's going on. The municipal side, they know what's going on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gray.

Mr. Collins, you have six minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I first want to thank all the witnesses for your appearances today and the testimony that you're providing to get us to the 100% mark in unanimity in terms of those who are satisfied with the program.

Mr. Ferris, I'll start with you. It has been a very tremendously successful program, as 96% of participants who are employers who have participated are satisfied with the program. That number is a bit lower for volunteers, for the youth participants. They're just under the 90% mark.

Your testimony here today helps us in improving the program and in tweaking some of the recommendations that have been made, so I'll start with you, Mr. Ferris.

You mentioned the living wage. I think you're one of the first witnesses to mention a living wage. Can you advise the committee what that means in terms of what's paid through the program right now and the support you get through Canada summer jobs, and what the difference would be if we were to support a higher premium as it relates to a living wage?

[Sean Ferris]

Thank you, MP Collins, for putting me on the spot to do math in front of everyone.

I believe the minimum wage is $15.50. There may have been a recent change and I apologize. Our living wage is $19.05 currently, so we're looking at a $3.55 difference times four-plus individuals. I would say that, for construction, kids coming out of the Ontario youth apprenticeship program have the opportunity to go into trades, which is fantastic. To be competitive with some of those trades, we need to go higher than the living wage, but I'll leave it to you to do the math. The number is $3.55 per hour per student.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Sean.

Then you mentioned the extra cost that some students need to incur as it relates to the protective equipment that's required. When I volunteered with your organization, I had to bring my own workboots to the site. Lisa and I have been several times. There is a cost there. I'm assuming there might be more depending on the job site. In terms of those costs, do you have any idea what kinds of costs a student might incur above and beyond other jobs that might be offered through other Canada summer job employers?

[Sean Ferris]

The PPE included hard hats, eye protection, ear protection, masks of various kinds, gloves and boots. Those are the key ones. Sometimes it's knee pads and things of that nature. We will provide that, but it comes at an opportunity cost because we would be taking those items away from another student or volunteer. As a result, we often incur that cost if the student can't afford it. If the students are not paying for it, we are paying for it. Boots alone are well over $100. It could easily be $200, so we're talking maybe $250 per individual, depending on role and the activity they're engaged in.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Sean.

Sean, you would know, in participating for the last eight years, that there is an EDI component to the application process. We've had a couple of witnesses come forward to say that, just from a geographic perspective, it's been a challenge in terms of meeting some of those requirements and trying to get a diverse field of students through their program. We also heard from StatsCan that 50% of students are unemployed through the summer months, and of that 50%, racialized students make up the largest part.

Can you share with the committee the importance of diversity within your organization, how you accommodate that through the Canada summer jobs program and if you've had any challenges regarding the same?

[Sean Ferris]

I don't think I need to emphasize how important diversity is. We absolutely want to bring in a diversity of perspectives, so it's not just about visual differences but about our ability to bring in people who are going to make us better because they see things in a different way. We advertise through local community job boards. We use Indeed. We post internally.

I've reached out to various organizations that support diverse communities to try to bring in diverse individuals, but looking at the five individuals we had on board this year, the diversity was low. That was an opportunity. We are eager for guidance and support in terms of how to enhance diversity. It is not our expertise. I am the HR department, and I am open and welcoming to any guidance and support we can get in that regard, because it is vitally important but I don't necessarily have the means to leverage that opportunity to its fullest.