Human Resources Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

It's my right to turn to officials, Mrs. Gray, and I'm turning to an official.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Okay, fair enough. I'll just move on, then, Minister. Thank you.

The fall economic statement actually states that it will take five years for unemployment to come back to current levels. That's right in your fall economic statement, going to 2028.

Looking at EI premiums right now, will workers see an increase in premiums, or would they see the EI premiums being the same going into 2024 as they are right now?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We have raised the premiums to $1.66, up from $1.63. We get advice from the chief actuary every year to that effect. Currently, EI premiums are 22¢ below where they were when the current Leader of the Opposition was EI minister.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, in budget 2023, did your government commit to keeping the EI premiums the same?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We committed to keeping EI premiums at $1.66 until we get advice from the chief actuary.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Under the Employment Insurance Act, do you have the power to cancel these increases, yes or no?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I take the advice of the chief actuary. The reason I take the advice is so we can make sure, in the case of the EI fund, that it is whole by 2030. I take the advice of the chief actuary seriously.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

This was a promise that was made by your government in budget 2023.

Is this a promise you decided to break once you became a minister in this role, or was it always the intention to break that promise to workers?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

There's never an intention to break promises to workers. We want to make sure that the EI system is robust.

To your earlier question, should unemployment go up to 6.5%, we want to make sure that the EI fund is well capitalized to help those people who might be facing unemployment.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, your government's proposed benefits delivery modernization program is years behind schedule, and running billions over cost.

Can you confirm that the benefits delivery modernization program will now cost taxpayers $8 billion, as has been reported?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

What I can confirm for you, Mrs. Gray, is that the benefits delivery modernization program will allow us to get 1.5 trillion dollars' worth of benefits out to people over its life cycle.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, have you requested a briefing on the benefits delivery modernization program?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

This is a program that is in the bailiwick of Minister Beech, who I understand will be appearing at this committee.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Minister, this includes systems such as EI, OAS and CPP, which are under your purview.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We're just getting through the OAS phase now. Next, we'll be into the EI phase, and then we'll be into the CPP. This is not a one-phase program. This is a program that takes place over years and—

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

It is within your purview.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

—is billions of dollars, so that we get it right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We'll now move to Mr. Coteau, for five minutes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both ministers and officials for being here. There's no question that both of your portfolios are very important for the success of this country.

I want to speak specifically about anti-racism and people with disabilities.

Minister Khera, I think your file is probably one of the most important files in government, because it talks about our future. It talks about our opportunity and where we're going as a country when it comes to opening up opportunity. We can build opportunity through investing in industry. We can build opportunity by bringing skilled workers to Canada. We can also bring opportunity to this country by opening up opportunity for people and leveraging our workforce that's here to better participate and build this country.

I know that people living with disabilities.... Anti-racism is a moral imperative, but it's also an economic imperative. We know that if people reach their full potential, it contributes to our economy. It contributes to our well-being as a country. I know anti-racism work has been one of this government's key pillars, looking for ways to create more inclusion, diversity and opportunity for all people. I know this was the first federal government that put in place an anti-racism strategy.

Could you take a few minutes to talk about the anti-racism strategy, where we're coming from, where we're going, and how this is going to benefit Canadians overall? Even though it may specifically speak to a person who may face discrimination, it actually speaks to the benefit of all Canadians. When that person who faces discrimination has a barrier removed, it contributes to the well-being of every person in this country. If you could talk a bit about that, I would appreciate it.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you for that very important question and also for your leadership in this space. You and I have had many conversations around the work that needs to be done.

I always say that diversity is a fact in Canada—which we know—but inclusion is a choice. It is a choice that our government, since 2015, has been very deliberate in making, ensuring that we're bringing those perspectives to the table at every front.

You're absolutely right. We have to be very deliberate in bringing the voices of some of the most vulnerable in our communities and looking at individuals who haven't had those opportunities in the past.

Yes, you're absolutely right. It is our government that put forward Canada's first-ever anti-racism strategy, which has led us to the work around having, first and foremost, an anti-racism secretariat. The work they're doing is a framework around taking a whole-of-government approach, that intersectional approach, to addressing racial inequities and also ensuring that we are combatting hate when we see it.

With regard to your point around where we have to be very deliberate in making those choices, that has led us to do the work within communities. I'll give you examples of the work that we've done for the UN International Decade for People of African descent, which has led us to put these very important policies and programs in place. The work around the Black entrepreneurship program is around supporting Black individuals and getting them the capital that they need to start businesses. There is the work that we're doing with the supporting Black communities initiative. It is Black-led, Black-serving organizations that are doing this work on the ground to support communities. There is also the work around the Black-led philanthropic endowment fund. These are things that actually matter, because we have to be very deliberate in including people if we want to have a really inclusive Canada.

It's the same model as the work that's happening under the disability inclusion action plan. I was talking earlier about our second pillar of the disability inclusion action plan, which is employment. I remember I was actually in your riding not too long ago with an organization, March of Dimes, that does incredible work. It's around matching the skills of individuals with disabilities with where we actually need people. This is the untapped potential of individuals whom we need to ensure we are including. We are doing this work with our employment strategy within the disability community.

Just last week, MP Coteau, through our disability inclusion business council, we launched a network of businesses like Manulife, IBM and others. You need to get the private sector on board to be able to see those best practices, to see how they can build inclusive communities, to make sure that individuals with disabilities are coming on board, and to share those best practices with other individuals. As you said, it's not just the right thing to do; it's actually about building an economic argument for Canada. When we include people, Canada wins.

This is the really inclusive work that we're doing, and I'm very proud of the work we're doing, in this committee particularly, to be able to move forward on the agenda of inclusion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Coteau.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'm very pleased that you were able to meet with Quebec's major labour unions. There's no doubt that EI reform is a priority for us, as it is for the groups representing the unemployed. We are extremely disappointed that we have not yet received a response on this issue. What I gather from your comments is that this is not a priority for your government.

On the other hand, you have acted on another issue, that is, you have reinstated recourse to a tripartite decision-making tribunal. In fact, this was a government commitment. We adopted this measure almost a year ago now, if I'm not mistaken. To my knowledge, nothing has been done to move this issue forward.

Could we have some clarification on this?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Of course, Ms. Chabot.

I'd like to point out that 1.2 million Canadians are unemployed. There are 632 positions open right now across the country. If there are fewer positions open, that means the employment rate is up and the unemployment rate is down.

Regarding the creation of this tripartite appeal board, I will say that we are here to ensure that unions exercise their rights in the system. That's why Minister O'Regan and I announced last week the launch of a union-led advisory table that will advise our government. We held our first meeting.

We will continue to make improvements without dropping other aspects. I wouldn't want us to have difficulties with service delivery because of this tripartite decision-making model.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Minister, I want to come back to the first part of your answer.

It's not because the unemployment rate is at its lowest that we shouldn't consider reform. On the contrary, we shouldn't wait for the next crisis to secure the social safety net that is employment insurance. That's why we expect your government and you, as minister, to give us answers fairly quickly on the question of reform.

This is inescapable if you want to give full security, full recognition to workers who often don't qualify for the current system.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

That is duly noted, Mr. Chair and Ms. Chabot.