I can't give you a specific date. I know there was an inquiry made by a number of my colleagues who are at the table here for a report back by January 19. I think that was received by you and others.

I'm happy to turn to my colleagues, if there's anything.... Perhaps the head of Service Canada, who was the previous business lead for BDM, or the new business lead for BDM, have something to add.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Thank you, Minister. We can have the officials come back at another time, so I'll just continue on with you.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

Certainly. I would then point to the documents that were handed to you on January 19.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Great. Thank you very much. The estimates aren't very clear on when a new budget will be tabled.

The next question is also with regard to the benefits delivery modernization programme. Does the Government of Canada have the capacity to do the project on its own, or is the plan to have a number of consultants working on this?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

I think this is a really good question, not just for BDM but in terms of advancing digital services generally.

There is no doubt that the Government of Canada needs to develop its core strength when it comes to the technical leadership that exists within the public service. At present, this program is being developed through partnerships with both the public service and private contractors.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

On that note, Minister, what is the value of contracts so far for the benefits delivery modernization programme?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

I have a thick document at the back of my binder here that details that information. I think that this information was also included in the January 19 submission. I'm happy to table that information in detail with the committee as well.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Great. Thank you, Minister. If you could, please have that tabled for the committee.

The information I have is that it's $669 million to date. Of that, it's really interesting who some of the contractors are in there.

Specifically, I want to bring to light that Public Services and Procurement, PSPC, is investigating ArriveCAN contracts given to Dalian and Coradix. What did you do when you found out that PSPC was investigating contracts for these vendors, which are also listed on the benefits delivery modernization programme?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

Specifically with regard to the benefits delivery modernization programme, I can tell you that we followed all procurement practices, and you can rest assured that any contract over $40,000 has been competitively bid on.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Minister, before I get into that, my follow-up question is this: Did you also launch an investigation into your department after you heard that the same vendors that were involved in the benefits delivery modernization programme were also being investigated under the ArriveCAN app right now?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

My understanding at present is that all procurement processes were followed, but if there are concerns that you'd like to raise, I'd be happy to follow up with you on them.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Minister, on that note, in fact there is a limit. My understanding is that it's $40,000, and when looking at the list and what the values are, there are several that have been over that amount. Are you aware, Minister, of those that did not go through the formal procurement process, the RFP?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Beech Liberal Burnaby North—Seymour, BC

My understanding and my information are that every contract amount over $40,000 for the entirety of the $852 million that has been spent has gone through the appropriate competitive practice. If there's an incident that you're aware of in which that didn't happen, I'd be happy to look into it for you.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Tracy Gray

Thank you, Minister.

That's time, and now we'll go over to Mr. Van Bynen.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister O'Regan, I was quite taken by your focus on dignity, both in the workplace and for seniors, particularly in relation to allowing seniors to age with dignity. My question is with respect to NORCs, naturally occurring retirement communities.

Are there any projects that explore the benefits or the merits of developing programs that would support NORCs, naturally occurring retirement communities?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Mr. Van Bynen, I'll give you 10 points for consistency, because I don't think you said, “Merry Christmas” to me but you do ask, “How are NORCs?” every time we bump into each other. That's a blatant exaggeration, but this is something I know you're very passionate about.

The comments that I made about dignity directly tie into that. Seniors need to be able to age in their communities where they can. Until I became Minister for Seniors, I must admit that I hadn't heard of NORCs, but thanks to your lobbying and also hearing about them through officials, now I know. These are naturally occurring retirement communities. They do incredible work, and they don't have that clinical feel that you feel in many retirement communities, which is like you're in some sort of semi-hospital.

These are places where people live. They feel like homes, and the great thing about programs like New Horizons for Seniors or the age well at home program is that they create opportunities for these innovative approaches like NORCs that allow people to age with dignity.

Specifically on the age well at home program, we invested $1.8 million to scale up Queen's University's Oasis NORC-based program. Oasis meets seniors where they are. It helps to prevent social isolation, which is a big thing. It helps promote physical fitness and injury prevention, and it facilitates better nutrition for seniors. It's expanding now to 12 locations across Canada. It's an excellent example of how we're moving on with this.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON

Thank you very much.

I have one additional, quick question, again staying with dignity for seniors.

We've seen conservatives down south constantly attacking retirement programs. In fact, we've seen the age of retirement go from 65 to 67, and we're seeing echoes of what's going on south of the border. What are your worries about this?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt here. It's not like anybody, I think, has a personal vendetta against the Canada pension plan, but we have to be vigilant about these things.

When we improved the CPP, we knew that we were making an investment in seniors. We knew we had to protect its solvency. We knew that it had to be there for people. You want to make sure that you protect CPP at all costs. It's not something that we should ever take for granted. I would like to believe that most people—and I think everybody in this room—would want to see that its integrity was protected.