Human Resources Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

—or I could word it for you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

Mr. Fragiskatos, you're the one putting forth the amendment, so the wording is—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Let me work on the wording. We don't even have the original wording at this point. If we can have the original wording distributed, then we can work on it and we can amend accordingly.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

After consulting with the clerk, one thing we could do is suspend debate on this motion and bring it up at the top of the next meeting for discussion. At that time, everyone can have their translated motion. It would be up for debate at the beginning of the next meeting, the meeting that we have on Thursday.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, could the wording be circulated—I'm sure it will be—between now and then? It's a simple.... I will add the words that I want about three meetings, and I think everybody's on the same page.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

Thank you very much. That would be the intention. I'm seeing a lot of nods. It doesn't appear that we need to go to a vote.

I'll go back to you, Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Mr. Rousseau, in what way does Air Canada work proactively with the Canadian Transportation Agency to ensure accessible air travel?

[Michael Rousseau]

We work with many different parties, including the CTA. I think I mentioned in my earlier comments that we were a main contributor to the work put out by the CTA on disabilities. However, we work also with other experts in the area. We just recently put together an advisory committee of four groups representing different disabilities to help us to get better.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

In December, the CTA issued a monetary penalty for contraventions relating to subsections 35(f), 35(h) and 37(b) of the accessible transportation for persons with disabilities regulations. What specific steps has Air Canada taken to address these violations?

[Michael Rousseau]

I would like to refer this question to Kerianne or Tom, who may have more details as to the references you mentioned and our reaction to them.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

If that could be tabled to committee, it would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Michael Rousseau]

Okay.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

We'll go over to Mr. Collins.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I think it's me.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

All right. We'll go over to Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today, to those from Air Canada who did eventually respond to the call initiated by our colleague Ms. Zarrillo, which was supported unanimously by this committee.

Sir, I've noticed, and it's no surprise.... Anybody who's a member of Parliament develops relationships with their constituents. Very profound relationships are those that exist with members of communities that advocate on behalf of those who are disabled.

In my community in London, Ontario, Jeff Preston is a professor of disability studies at the university. He and I have known each other for a number of years. I did reach out to him in advance of the meeting today to ask what he would want to come out of this meeting and if he wanted to say anything to you through my questions.

In December, Jeff travelled. His wheelchair was broken. He was in touch with Air Canada well before the flight to make sure that there would be an understanding at the arrival airport that there was a wheelchair on board, to make sure everything was smooth. Clearly, it was not.

His question, though, is not to delve too much into the unfortunate incident—which, by the way, took away from his Christmas because he had to resolve the matter with customer service instead of enjoying Christmas with his family. He wanted me to ask the following question:

A big part of the problem here isn't that Air Canada is missing important policies or procedures. It seems to be that none of these policies or procedures are being adequately downstreamed from corporate legal to the front line. How do you plan on actually fixing this problem, when obviously your current approach or methodology of training and communicating that through your system is an abject failure?

That's a direct quote from my constituent, Jeff Preston. What do you have to say to Mr. Preston?

By the way, I think his story is not unique.

I will end the question with this. I do notice, sir, that in your testimony you talked about the policies and procedures in place and how seriously you take all of this. I take you at your word on that. I'm not going to question that. However, it's clearly not finding effect. What is your plan for a substantive change going forward?

[Michael Rousseau]

I'm sorry to hear that your constituent had a bad experience with us.

We do have policies and procedures. We do have training each year. I believe the vast majority of our people have empathy and understand the processes. I think that's evidenced by the fact that we do successfully move the vast majority of the 500,000 customers with disabilities that we carry on an annual basis.

As we've said, we do make mistakes, so we have to improve. The way we're going to improve is we're going to double down on training, to start with. Our 10,000 airport employees will receive an enhanced training program that's been put together with the help of disability experts to ensure, first, that processes are followed, and secondarily and equally as importantly, that there's a better understanding of the needs of a customer with a disability.

Just recently, we put in place the Sunflower program for customers with non-visible disabilities. We're the first airline in North America to do so. If the customer chooses to wear the sunflower lanyard, that will be an indication to our staff that this customer has a hidden disability and that they should therefore act accordingly.

I think those are all concrete steps forward to improve the situation. Again, it's all outlined in our three-year accessibility plan that we're currently executing to get better and to achieve what I said in my opening comments, which is to make every experience a positive experience.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

My time is limited. The final question I have, Madam Chair, is—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

Actually, Mr. Fragiskatos, your time is up. Thank you anyway.

We'll go over to Madame Chabot for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I didn't have time to ask my questions earlier.

Mr. Rousseau, you said that you consulted a number of experts when developing the accessibility plan. But, in concrete terms, who is sitting at the table permanently? How do you ensure that you consult disability groups on a regular basis?

In your accessibility plan, you mentioned that you wanted to put these types of measures in place by 2023. Why wait? What has been done? In concrete terms, are there groups of people with disabilities who act permanently and regularly as advisors on your policy?

[Michael Rousseau]

Thank you for your question.

We had experts consult with us in the year leading up to launching our accessibility plan in June 2023. It's a three-year plan.

Just last week, we informed the market that we've executed another step in one of our initiatives, which is the formation of an advisory group, represented by four leading disability advocacy groups. It will provide input to us on an ongoing basis on things we can change and things we can accelerate and a number of different initiatives.

I think we have a very strong plan, with 145 different initiatives. Several important ones have already been executed, but this advisory group is about continuous improvement. Kerianne will be working closely with it to provide input on our decisions and our priorities regarding this critically important area on a go-forward basis.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You said you believed you were in compliance with legislation on accessibility—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tracy Gray]

Ms. Chabot, I'm sorry for interrupting you, but your time is up. Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Rousseau, I want to be clear that I am putting the problems that are happening with persons with disabilities squarely with you as the leader of this organization. I want to be clear on that, because there's been a lot of talk about training, other staff and things like that. I want to be clear that the culture of an organization flows down.

I want to ask you if are you aware of the Unpaid Work Won't Fly campaign by flight attendants, who say they work up to 40 hours a month unpaid.

[Michael Rousseau]

I'm aware of that campaign. Yes.