Evidence of meeting #15 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Generally speaking, when the board receives a request for ministerial referral, it opens a file and asks for representations from the parties involved. The board may do so through a hearing or in writing.
Often, the board will hold a case management conference to determine the best way to proceed with the case before it; this is done on a case-by-case basis. However, it is essential for the board to ensure that it hears all parties before a decision is rendered.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you.
As a quasi-judicial independent tribunal that promotes industrial peace, could you describe the role the CIRB plays in the relationship between employers and employees?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
When making decisions, the board always keeps in mind the objectives set out in the preamble to the Canada Labour Code. These principles generally underpin the board's decisions, along with any other legal constraints that may exist.
There are, of course, the specific provisions of the code. Some of you may be familiar with the Supreme Court's decision in Canada v. Vavilov. Our decisions must be rendered in accordance with the legal constraints that apply to the board.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Can you give us an example of what the relationship really looks like between the federal government and the board of directors?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Are you talking about our board?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Actually, they are completely independent of each other. When a matter is referred to us, we receive it at the same time as the parties. That's when we seek representations from the parties. However, there is no connection, whether in terms of an organizational chart or otherwise.
That said, the federal mediation and conciliation service, for example, has ties with our mediators at the board in cases where there is a crossover between the negotiation of a collective agreement and the disputes that come before the board. They may keep each other up to date of where they are with the parties. Otherwise, they are strictly separate and independent from each other.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
When the minister refers a case to you under section 107, is there any reason why employers and employees could not continue to negotiate?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
The parties are always encouraged to continue to negotiate and find common ground to renew their collective agreement.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
As a government, the message we send all the time is that the best deals happen at the bargaining table.
I think it's very important to explain that, while the government uses this tool from time to time, it doesn't prevent employers and employees from negotiating.
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
I couldn't agree more.
I would add that, when it comes to disputes that arise during collective bargaining, the board systematically offers its mediation services to the parties.
The parties use the federal mediation and conciliation service to negotiate the collective agreement. However, when a dispute comes before us, we immediately offer the services of our experienced mediators to help them pursue their objective. As the preamble to the Canada Labour Code states, we want the parties to reach an amicable agreement regarding their disputes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would also like to thank the witness for being with us.
Ms. Tremblay, I must say at the outset that I understand, to the best of my ability, that your answers need to be limited, given that the council is a quasi-judicial tribunal. Obviously, we respect the principle of the separation of powers.
You mentioned several times, both in your answers and in your opening remarks, that you were willing to give us some information. In fact, you provided us with a list of the council's decisions on ministerial referrals from 2024 and 2025. At the beginning of your presentation, you also spoke objectively about the board's operation and composition.
Can you tell us how many referrals have been made under section 107 in the last 25 years?
This is an arbitrary period. I'm trying to get a sense of how often section 107 is used. I would like to see the objective data on that. You may already have an idea and could give us a glimpse right now. If not, you could provide an answer in writing to the committee after the meeting. If you could even provide the pre-2000 data, it would be appreciated.
I would like you to give us an idea of how often section 107 is used.
Has there been an objective increase in how frequently the provision is used?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
I can answer your question directly.
In the decision known as 2024 CIRB 1162, rendered by the board on October 22, 2024, which concerns the Canadian National Railway case, you will find the detailed legislative history of section 107 in paragraphs 22 to 42. The reference is in the box in the second row of the fourth column of the table we provided to the committee.
You will note that the minister has only been able to issue directives to the board since 1984. The provision existed before, but without the possibility of referring files or questions to the commission.
Then, in paragraphs 43 to 53 of the same decision, you will find the history of the use of section 107 over the years. You'll see that 10 referrals were made under section 107 prior to the last two years. If you add the referrals from the past two years, which are already on the list we sent you, you will have all the referrals that have been made to the board.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Given the number of referrals that have been made under section 107 in the last two years and the fact that, prior to the last two years, there had been only 10 referrals since 1984, it seems that the provision is being used with increasing frequency. Maybe you can't tell us that.
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
The numbers speak for themselves.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Okay. I'm not the expert, so I wanted to confirm that my comment made sense.
Can you explain why section 107 is being used more often?
I'm not necessarily suggesting that it's a government choice. Maybe it's because of the situation itself. I don't want to judge.
I know that's a very difficult question. If you can't answer it, then please don't.
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
You would have to ask the department that question, because it's not our decision. We just receive and implement referrals.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Then I will put my question to the department.
That's all for me, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mrs. Gill.
Everybody is early.
We'll now go to Mr. Reynolds for five minutes.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Tremblay, for your time today.
This is my first question. The very foundation of the relationship between an employer and its unionized workforce is based on the ability to collectively bargain in good faith. Do you think the government's use of section 107 undermines that relationship?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
This is a question that goes to the heart of the reasons that section 107 is used or not, and the effect of section 107 referrals.
These are considerations that are, and can be, raised before the board in some adjudicative matters. I will refrain from making comments on this particular question just because it's certainly a value, a consideration, that the board is called to look at when it decides the cases that are in front of it.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
With the government's trending use of section 107, forcing unionized employees back to work and their respective unions into binding arbitration, which prevents strike action, do you think that this process shifts the contract negotiations in favour of the employer?
Chairperson, Canada Industrial Relations Board
Again, I will refrain from commenting on that in terms of the balance—whether it has an effect on the balance in the negotiating power. That is something that's assessed, presumably by the minister, when there's a section 107 referral to the board. It's also a consideration that may come into play in the board's assessment of and dealing with the section 107 referral.