Evidence of meeting #19 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Gregor Robertson  Minister of Housing and Infrastructure
Halucha  Deputy Minister, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities
 Education and Mobilization Officer, Association for the Rights of Household and Farm Workers
Parton  Business Manager and Financial Secretary, Ironworkers Local 97
Richard  Prefect, MRC de Minganie

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Have you gone to a homeless shelter in Ottawa or maybe back home in Vancouver? We know homelessness was up 38% while you were Vancouver's mayor. Maybe it would have been better just to visit a homeless shelter. It would have been better use of money or use of time.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Excuse me. We do have translation as an issue again.

Continue, Mr. Ho.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Minister, are you going to answer the question?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

It's a very important conference for our government staff who administer the programs. When we're investing billions of dollars to do the work, we need to connect with the people who do the work.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

You'd rather go on an inspiration retreat than maybe visit an actual shelter and see what the problems are with the folks who are experiencing homelessness.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

Many of us who work on this homelessness initiative have visited shelters and understand on the ground.... This is the largest gathering...a conference of people working—

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

I'm not getting an answer from you, so I'm going to move to the next question.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

I'm giving you an answer.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

Do department officials admit that you faked a $32,000 construction site on TV for cameras when the Prime Minister made a housing announcement a few months ago? Do you think that's a good use of money?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

Through the chair, that's incorrect as well. Those homes were constructed on the site. The whole purpose of modular housing is it can be put together and taken apart readily.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

They were disassembled.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

One of those homes was sent to Nunavut immediately thereafter. The other was taken apart and moved to another site where it was constructed.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

You spent $32,000 on it. You could have at least gone to an existing site and then maybe done the photo op there, but you chose to build one just to disassemble it and then it was $32,000 down the drain. That could be used toward a down payment for a young family. Actually, after 10 years of this Liberal government, $32,000 is no longer enough for a down payment.

Don't you think that you could have gone to an existing backdrop or used an existing construction site as a backdrop?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

I think it was important to demonstrate the effectiveness of modular housing—that it can be put together quickly on a site and moved off the site. That modular home went to Nunavut. We're doing 700 homes with the Government of Nunavut that are modular builds.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

I want to go into the latest parliamentary budget watchdog report. It said, “the government has not yet laid out” any “plan to achieve” its housing goal.

Your election campaign promised to build 500,000 homes a year. You doubled it by adding an extra 250,000 homes per year. The latest report said it's just going to build 5,000 homes per year over the next five years.

Do you see that as progress? That's only, what, 2% of the target reached.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

Through the chair, the PBO report does not take into account all of the housing programs that are currently operating. It strictly looked at the Build Canada Homes investment of $13 billion. When you gross that up to the number of homes that will be built, it came up to about 87,000 homes from that $13 billion. That's what their estimate is. It did not account for all of the housing investments that are being made.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

[Inaudible—Editor] half a million per year, so over five years that will be 2.5 million homes. That's still a drop in the bucket. Do you agree?

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

No, I don't. I don't agree with the assumptions made in that report, which do not account for all of the housing programs that this government—

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

[Inaudible—Editor] it's not a Liberal mouthpiece that's giving the report.

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

No, the report does not account for all of the housing programs, such as the national housing strategy, which is our largest housing program. The numbers for that are not included going forward in that report. It disregards that this government is very committed to affordable housing. We're already in a renewal process with the national housing strategy, working with provincial and territorial ministers. We made a commitment about that with those ministers in September of this year.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Ho.

I would remind members again that it's your time for questioning, but please give the person you direct the question to a reasonable amount of time to answer, just for the benefit of the interpreters, who have to interpret. It is your time, but the rules say to give a reasonable amount of time and not to interrupt.

Ms. Desrochers, you have the floor for five minutes.

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us this afternoon and for all the work you’re doing on this extremely important issue.

We know that our forestry workers, our steelworkers and our industries are currently going through rough times. I'm wondering if you can talk about how the investment policy and the approach our government is taking with Build Canada Homes are going to support the industry and the workers, and catalyze some of the demand from those sectors.

Gregor Robertson Liberal Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC

Thank you for your question.

With the Build Canada Homes investments—the $13 billion that is before us in budget 2025—we are looking at buy Canadian criteria. Proposals coming in will be considered by the investment committee based upon affordability and scale. Obviously, we want to see both—significant affordability and scale—with a positive impact on their communities, but we want a buy Canadian approach. We want materials from Canada, wherever possible, with Canadian wood ideally, given the challenges faced by the softwood industry. We have Canadian steel and Canadian aluminum that make great building products as well.

Overall, modern methods of construction are a priority for Build Canada Homes. Over 800 companies across Canada are manufacturing different components of housing. Sometimes, like in the Nunavut housing example, from the launch, those are volumetric, or they're entire modular homes. In other cases, they're panels, or they're kitchen and bath pods. There are different components of homes that are manufactured. We want those to be manufactured in Canada with Canadian jobs and with a Canadian supply chain.

Whenever the materials can be Canadian produced, that is going to be an advantage for our economy. Obviously, we'll make those proposals...better received—let me put it that way—versus those that don't have Canadian materials.

We're making sure that there is a very clear message in the investment policy on the Build Canada Homes portal, on the website. We're making sure all of the partners, the proponents bringing their projects forward, understand that we want a buy Canadian approach with our investments here.

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Thank you very much, Minister.

My next question is for Deputy Minister Halucha.

There's been a lot of comment on how we're doing too much, investing too much or not doing enough. I would like to hear it from your perspective. Having spent over 20 years in the public service, I understand what it takes to put a program like Build Canada Homes together. I'd like you to comment on the sense of urgency and speed that you have felt over the last few months to launch all of this in the last few weeks.

Paul Halucha Deputy Minister, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities

I can certainly attest to the fact that we felt a lot of urgency in terms of getting the new agency up and running and operational.

Conventional wisdom is that it takes around 18 months to get an operating agency up. In roughly half of the same calendar year, we moved from an early design on what the agency could do to developing an investment policy and establishing a transition team. They're now in the situation where, as the minister noted, they're accepting projects through a portal. It's a pretty extraordinary turnaround time.