Human Resources Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[Doug Parton]

Yes, we've reported that federally over the last 15 years, whether it was the Conservative government at the time we first started or Liberal governments, and it was a sticky.... It's not one-size-fits-all. I only speak about construction, because that's all I know. I'm not going to get into fish processing or stuff like that. That's akin to getting a carpenter to come over and wire your house. He just wouldn't do it.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm an electrician, so no.

Does the TFW program undermine the work you do as a trade unionist to improve wages and improve working conditions for Canadian labourers?

[Doug Parton]

Yes, but I don't want to understate how it devalues the temporary foreign worker as well. These people are a captive workforce, as we heard, and I keep going back to the young lady who spoke first. We hear this all the time: If they say something, they're on a plane. It shouldn't be like that in Canada.

That's not to mention what my job is, which is to get the best working conditions for my members and workers, and even people who aren't my members, people who may be in an open shop. A rising tide lifts all ships.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you believe there is an overreliance on the TFW program to the point that it has changed the realities on the ground for Canadian labourers, who are forced to compete against weaker wages?

[Doug Parton]

At the risk of speaking on behalf of my contractors—in Local 97, we represent over 240 contractors as well as our members—we hold them to a higher standard with the apprenticeships, skills training and stuff that they have to pay into on an hourly basis so that we can continue to further the trade.

When we have companies taking advantage of the temporary foreign worker system, where they can come in and undercut some wages as much as 50%, it makes it pretty hard for that good Canadian company that's done everything right and paid taxes in Canada. How do they compete? It's a numbers game at that point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

[Doug Parton]

We're living in the land. We're talking about condominiums and stuff. We're living in British Columbia. I'm sure you're well aware of the million-dollar condo—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Parton and Mr. Reynolds.

We'll now move to Ms. Fancy for six minutes.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you very much.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I want to thank the witnesses for coming today.

I want to start by saying it's really good to be back here today. Last week, we and our witnesses found ourselves a little blindsided by the dilatory motion to adjourn. We're seeing the Conservative Party finally realize that it's weaponized immigration to the point that businesses and other witnesses are afraid to come forward to appear and discuss the need for the temporary foreign worker program.

I'd also like to mention, as some of you noted in the beginning, that this program makes up only 1% of our workforce, but for many rural regions, like my own in South Shore, Nova Scotia, this is a very important program. I've heard from a lot of my constituents and businesses, and they have positively discussed temporary foreign workers and some of the ways they want to further create efficiencies within this program, which is what we're doing with this study. This is why we voted for the Bloc study today.

I am the former chair of the Rural Communities Foundation of Nova Scotia, the vice-chair of our national rural caucus and a rural researcher of value-added systems. Rural Canada is speaking out. Mr. Osborne Burke, of Nova Scotia, went on CBC on September 25 to challenge Mr. Poilievre. I remember listening to this on my way to a constituency meeting. He asked Mr. Poilievre, “where are these workers that are unemployed that are looking for work...contrary to what Mr. Poilievre says, is there's nobody else left to employ.... We do not have the labour pool. We do not have the workforce.”

Madame Richard, from your opening statement and having read your background, it seems like we're coming from very similar regions. What labour market challenges have rural communities been experiencing? How do they differ from some of those of the more urban areas?

[Meggie Richard]

As I explained, the Côte-Nord is the only region in Quebec that has gone through a demographic decline in recent years. Our circumstances are therefore quite different than those of large population centres, which often have to deal with a massive, uncontrolled influx of immigrants that sometimes requires adjustments.

We want to take in temporary foreign workers. We want to encourage them to settle here with us for the long term. In my opinion, we offer a better quality of life than anywhere else in Canada, along with wide-open spaces. Unlike what we see in urban areas, the contributions of each individual make a difference in our surroundings.

We want this type of program to be tailored by region and to take the specific realities of each region of Canada into consideration, because we’re ready and we need newcomers. They can change a lot in our environment. Based on my discussions with many of them, and with entrepreneurs, we’re seeing that already. We consider it a privilege to welcome them. It’s an opportunity to have them to our area to play a part in the region's vitality.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you very much for that.

You also mentioned in your opening statement “vitality”. What are some of your recommendations for the continued vitality of rural areas in Canada while also mitigating any of the negative impacts that temporary foreign worker programs might have on broader labour markets?

[Meggie Richard]

The municipalities in our area are actively working to create housing projects specifically intended to attract more people of all backgrounds to our area. We want to create a hospitable environment, so we’re working on adapting everything.

As I was saying, it’s a matter of our region's survival. Our only goal is to counteract the demographic decline. To do that, we need everyone. Often, these are mining towns with large hydroelectric projects that pay high salaries. We go the distance when it comes to food security. I can give you examples of entrepreneurs and businesses that have to turn to retirees and young students for a hand. Right now, it’s a matter of food security.

Also, since we provide a hospitable environment, we let people who move to our area get involved directly. Earlier, I heard someone mention volunteering, but we have a whole reception system waiting. We work very hard in each of our RCMs and regions to develop appropriate reception programs and ensure proper integration into the communities. When it comes to vitality, I believe that effective integration by newcomers into our area and their participation in French language training really make a difference. This is how newcomers start feeling at home and wanting to settle here for the long term.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also thank each of the witnesses who are with us today to talk about the temporary foreign worker program.

I’m happy to hear the testimony of various participants because it helps us move past the stereotypes associated with the program and improve it. Of course, Ms. Richard and I live in the same vast territory and share the same challenges back home, but we also share the many opportunities available to us.

I would have liked to hear your comments.

You offered several recommendations. I’m sure you have concrete examples of labour-related effects so that we can not only measure the benefits of the temporary foreign worker program here, especially in the fishery field, but also understand what would happen if people stopped coming to work here.

You said that you'd met with a number of people. I've also met with temporary foreign workers who talked about their experiences. These experiences are diverse and, as you said, they can be enriching and beneficial for us as well.

[Meggie Richard]

Naturally, I have a lot of examples to share. This issue is a concern to people in our region, not only immigrants but also entrepreneurs and the general public as well. Entrepreneurs call me. I can hear their despair. I can hear the bewilderment, fear, and above all, the distress of these immigrants, who have become our friends. Teams get formed. These people become part of the workplace and the community.

Over the decades, entrepreneurs have built up their family businesses and strived to come up with innovative solutions in response to the region's labour shortages. In recent years, their solution has been to take in immigrants through this program. Immigrants are the ones who make it possible to serve the population and offer it services.

Unless the program changes, these entrepreneurs will face difficult choices. They may cut services or hours of operation, or even shut down permanently.

I talked about the 10% federal ceiling on low-wage jobs, but we mustn’t forget that 80% of the local population are also affected by these changes. If service hours are cut, the local population and customers of these businesses will also feel it. It really has a snowball effect.

Despite all the efforts that entrepreneurs are making to properly receive immigrants, the rug is being pulled out from under their feet. Entrepreneurs have no other solution. Where we live, there is none. We don’t have a labour pool. It’s our only solution. That’s the really sad part.

Take the example of La Promenade restaurant. I hope the owners get a chance to speak with you. It’s the only restaurant in Minganie that offers three meals a day and stays open seven days a week. It has served the local population, tourists and workers in our industries for 40 years. Today, we found out that if the announced change goes through, this restaurant will have to cut its hours of operation. That's a real tragedy and it affects real people. I want to make that point clear.

There’s also the Chez Julie restaurant and our grocery store. All of these people have called me to voice their despair.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Richard.

I’d like to put things in context. It may seem like we're talking about just another restaurant. When you live in a remote area, you sometimes have to travel 100 or 200 kilometres to get gas or something to eat.

You know it too, Ms. Richard. You mentioned safety. So far, so good.

Sometimes, a community has only one restaurant or one grocery store, and they're smaller than the ones in larger centres. The population of some villages is 200 or 300 people. So it’s important to put things into perspective.

I also thought about the fishing industry and Longue-Pointe-de-Mingan. There’s a processing industry, but if the industry has no more workers, we'll have a crisis on our hands. We saw that when the licences of Mexican workers were suspended. It was February 29. I will never forget it. No one was thinking about the fisheries, only about agriculture. We saw how that worked out back home.

Could all this mean that fishers might no longer show up at the docks and unload their catch, or that the industry might ultimately leave the region?

[Meggie Richard]

More than 80 people work in the seafood and food processing sector. They play an extremely important role in this seasonal industry. Four years ago, I had the opportunity to serve as a francization agent for these workers. Speaking with them was a truly rewarding experience.

Many of these workers came back year after year. I noticed that they ultimately hoped to settle here with their families, bring their children and spouse. They wanted to contribute to our economy, our vitality and give their family a fantastic place to live.

What I remember is how they smiled and the way they enjoyed coming to work here in conditions that I would describe as outstanding. We acknowledged their contribution and they appreciated the home we offered them.

Measures like the proposed changes to the temporary foreign worker program put a number of our industries at risk. I’m deeply concerned about where we’re headed and the impact it could have on businesses back home.

Our population will be directly affected. As mentioned, losing services in such a vast area is huge. My RCM spans 360 kilometres of coastline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Richard and Mrs. Gill.

Mr. Genuis, you have five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

I particularly appreciate that we have someone testifying who has actually been through the program and seen some of its impacts. My questions will start with Ms. Zé.

Maybe just by way of preamble, I think it's important to identify the fact that the temporary foreign worker program is one of a suite of different immigration programs. Nobody here is proposing the elimination of all categories of international recruitment, but we are talking about a particular program with particular problems. I think the testimony has identified those problems and the need for tools to recruit people from outside the region or elsewhere.

Ms. Zé, your testimony echoes what we've heard from some economists during previous work this committee's done on youth unemployment. That is to say, the particular structure of a temporary foreign worker program creates power imbalances. Normally there are a lot of complex power dynamics involving employers and employees, but one of the powers that an employee has is choice. They can leave their job and find another job. Of course, in an environment with high unemployment, that employee has less power. If there's low unemployment, that employee has relatively more power because it's easier for them to go to a different job.

However, the temporary foreign worker case that you're describing is unique because the worker has so little power because their immigration status is tied to their employment with a particular employer. There would be many alternatives in terms of programs that would still allow people to be recruited to fill genuine skill gaps, but you're talking, I think, about a serious social justice issue, which is an exaggerated power imbalance between workers and their employers that results from the architecture of this program.

I wonder, if you think I have that right, if you want to say more about that, about how in particular the structure of this program and the power imbalances create unique challenges and dynamics and about how there would be alternatives that allow workers to fill genuine skill gaps that don't involve that power imbalance.

[Bénédicte Zé]

Thank you for your question.

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Ms. William in particular.

We want to come and work in Canada, but with rights. We want to be respected and treated the same as everyone else. However, this program creates a hierarchy where the employer has all the power. When we come up against an employer acting in bad faith, as I did, we endure all kinds of mistreatment, all kinds of injustice. As a woman, I was sexually assaulted, enslaved and confined. I didn’t have the power to leave my job and go work somewhere else. Since I was in a remote area, I could have found work somewhere else considering the labour shortage. A lot of people would have been glad to have me work for them.

No one could say that I didn't do a good job. In fact, I worked so well that the employer added more work to my contract; what he wanted, however, was a slave. He sometimes forced me to work 70 or 80 hours a week—without pay, I should add. He therefore had nothing less than a slave who was afraid to go back home and who was willing to endure every injustice because she had already paid a lot of money, sold her business and left her children.

As we proposed to the Association for the Rights of Household and Farm Workers, or RHFW, I would have kept working for my boss, because I loved my job, I love working, if only I'd been given access to a program, to an open work permit with a pathway to permanent residency. When I came to Canada, I came here to work. That would have made it easier for me to integrate, to bring my children over and to stay in that region. It would also have allowed me to do the same volunteer work in that region as I do now, in Montréal.

Workers want to come here to work as long as they're respected like everyone else, the way you are here in Canada, and treated like any other human being, on the same level—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can I jump in with a quick follow-up question? I think people watching this may say that most employers are good people with good intentions and they're not like the person you described. I think that's very true. However, the issue is the structure of the program creates a power imbalance, which means in cases where people are treated badly, they don't have recourse. If you used different channels, if you didn't use this deeply flawed structure, then people would be in a stronger position to address problems where those problems emerge. Would you agree?

[Bénédicte Zé]

I completely agree with you. A better-structured program that includes a pathway to permanent residency with an open work permit would encourage a lot of people to come work here. It would make it easier for them to integrate and put down roots in the community where they're hired.

In my case, I left because I was mistreated. This type of problem occurs because of the employer's ability to dominate and exert absolute power over the employee. However, if they were recruited like a normal person—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zé.

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Madame Desrochers, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.

I think that what clearly emerges from everything we’ve heard is that the temporary foreign worker issue is extremely complex. Regional differences rule out the possibility of a one-size-fits-all answer.

I’ll come back to you, Ms. Zé, and your experience. Of course, abuses of power exist.

The temporary foreign worker program is not an immigration program. Its purpose is more to meet needs in specific sectors. As we heard from Ms. Richard, whom I thank for her comments, and from other witnesses, it’s that—

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

On a point of order, my interpretation is not working.

I just want to make sure it's working. Thanks.