Human Resources Committee on March 12th, 2026

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you, Ms. Fockler.

[Megan Fockler]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

We'll have Madame Larouche for two and a half minutes, please.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. deMontigny, for turning your difficult experience into what I gather has become a lifelong fight. I sympathize with your experience.

As Ms. Meunier said earlier, by providing 18 weeks of leave through the Quebec parental insurance plan, Quebec has already conveyed a message. The federal government has taken notice. This has led to the current discussions in order to find a solution to further help families get through this difficult time.

To finish up my last round, I'll turn to you, Ms. Fockler.

You provide support, and that's quite admirable. We would like to see a more comprehensive reform of employment insurance. What are parents on the ground telling you about the steps that they need to take when dealing with federal programs such as employment insurance? It can be complex. What are parents telling you about it?

[Megan Fockler]

We've heard from several of our PAIL Network volunteers and families about the impact of bureaucracy. We know that when people are grieving, it feels very difficult to reach out for supports or resources, and trying to navigate these systems is challenging.

We have also heard that professionals might not know exactly what to share or employers might not know what to share, so the guidance that families receive can be very limited or incorrect. Their experience is about trying to navigate that—searching Google, trying to figure out what they're eligible for or not, listening to stories from other people and going on Facebook or social media to try to find what worked for others.

There is an impact of bureaucracy while they're grieving and while they're dealing with health issues sometimes and trying to honour their babies. There is an impact of bureaucracy and going in person and sharing your story over and over again with people who might be compassionate, or not. We hear a lot that they're not. This is the experience of families that we hear often.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Could a single window reporting system or automatic support reduce the administrative burden for bereaved parents?

[Francine deMontigny]

Absolutely.

[Megan Fockler]

I would advocate for an automatic kick-in of the benefit, with flexibility for the parent to choose if they want something different. Any time you can remove the onus on a grieving family to reach out for support to change a system or process, we should do that. I think that would be important.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you very much,

Now we will go to Mr. Reynolds for five minutes.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Thank you so much, witnesses, for coming here today. We've been hearing heavy stories over a couple meetings.

I'm a father of three and a grandfather of three, and I can't even imagine what these families are going through. I want to say thank you so much for your work.

Here at the committee, when we hear these stories, really they're just a snapshot of what these families are truly going through, but you both are with these families from start to finish. Thank you so much for your work. You must be feeling all of it. It's even hard for us on the committee, and it's been a very emotional committee meeting today. I'm sure you carry this with you all the time, so thank you so much for coming here today and sharing with us your input. It is so important to do this work.

Ms. Fockler, can you share with us, in your experience, what a typical recovery time is for families? Obviously it's different for individuals, but on average, when are people feeling ready to face the world again?

[Megan Fockler]

It's an amazing question. It's also a very challenging one to answer.

I would say that for a lot of people, when they discover they're pregnant or when they've given birth to their baby, they envision their future with that baby. They often envision the amount of time they've planned off work. They've prepared for that. When a baby dies and everything changes, the feeling of going back to work right away is very, very challenging.

The circumstances of loss vary greatly. Some people anticipate it coming. For others it's a complete shock. Sometimes those circumstances impact the amount of time a person might want off for leave.

This is probably not the answer you want, but I think there's no typical timeline for a family or for a person. It will be dependent on their culture and beliefs and even their grieving style. We know that for some people, returning to work is protective or healthy and something that people will want to do. That should be supported, which is why we're talking a bit about flexibility. Other people might never return to work. Everybody else is kind of in between.

We hear from most families that no time or a few weeks is not enough. I think families would probably say they need more than that. A typical time is challenging. I think for a lot of families, there are practicalities in considering a subsequent pregnancy and future baby, like needing to get back to work to accumulate time so they can qualify for leave again. We know that after loss, approximately 80% of families are pregnant within one to two years. In that time frame, people who want to qualify again for pregnancy leave or parental leave will return to work to accumulate their hours.

If they felt supported at the time of their loss, were given resources and met people who had education and training on compassionate care, they're more prepared to re-enter typical life after and to continue to integrate this loss into the rest of their life.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you feel that our current structure for bereavement is long enough?

[Megan Fockler]

We've heard from so many families that the answer is no, and I don't think so either. I think a lot of people are required to return to work, or are required to enter into a process that becomes complicated or burdensome, and so they don't.

I would say, no, it's not long enough. This is what the bill can change.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

In your opinion, are we dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's with this bill? Are we missing anything? Is anybody going to slip through the cracks? I guess that's essentially what I'm asking.

[Megan Fockler]

I think the bill addresses a lot of concerns that families have. Nothing glaring comes to mind for me.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you, Mr. Reynolds.

For our final round, we will go to Madame Koutrakis for five minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today.

I have to echo a lot of the comments from my colleague Mr. Reynolds. I'd like to thank you and all the witnesses who appeared before us today. Your research and your professional work help us to better understand as legislators where we need to focus more, to do better and to pass the message on to grieving parents that they have been heard. It is time to get this bill passed. It's been quite a few years.

In the previous meeting, we heard from parents who have been working on this for at least 10 years following the death of their child. Before that, I've heard stories since the nineties. I think we can all agree at this committee that all members are prioritizing this bill. As a government, we ensured the inclusion of funding for grieving parents so there would be no stumbling block where funding is concerned. This is why we need to move it out of committee as quickly as possible, get it back to the House and make sure it becomes law—Evan's law.

For the balance of my time, I would like to give each of you an opportunity to provide us with some closing remarks or some final thoughts that you think we haven't touched upon and that you think would benefit all of us and would be relevant to include in our report on the testimony.

Ms. deMontigny, I would like to hear your answer first, please.

[Francine deMontigny]

You're right that it has been quite a few years. I spearheaded two petitions in Quebec for this parental leave. I think that the first one dates back to 2012. Parents have been asking for this for a long time.

To follow up on Mr. Reynolds' question, I must point out that I've been seeing this need for a long time. I've been facilitating bereavement groups for parents for over 20 years. I see bereaved parents every month. I see the pain slowly subside and the work that they do to get better. Of course, the first year is critical. However, anniversaries can also rekindle feelings of grief.

I think that this bill will send a clear message not only to Canada and all the provinces, but also to the rest of the world. I'm a member of the International Stillbirth Alliance. I served on its board for seven years. We're concerned about the lack of progress. Things are moving, but slowly. One country will introduce one week of leave. Another country will react by introducing two weeks of leave. Another country will then react by introducing three weeks of leave. The countries observe each other.

Canada has often been a forward‑thinking country. I believe that the bill will give us the opportunity to apply pressure to other forward‑thinking countries, such as Australia or the United Kingdom, and to less forward‑thinking countries. That way, they'll acknowledge the significance of perinatal bereavement. In countries such as India, for example, perinatal bereavement is completely overlooked. The mother comes home and everything in the baby's room has already been removed. It's as if the child never existed.

The bill will contribute to a global message, which international associations can pass on by pointing to Canada as an example.

This will have an impact for us on an economic and social level, as well as for parents. It will also have a ripple effect abroad.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Fockler, would you like to add your closing remarks?

[Megan Fockler]

Yes. Thank you.

First, I think parents are really excited about this. Personally, I know people watching today who have been working on this, as you said, and advocating for this change. I hope you hear the message that seeing a change is something families are really excited about.

Also, as Francine was saying, the opportunity for leadership internationally, but also nationally, is so important, and this bill is an example of that. Hopefully, it's not the end. In addition to the passing of this bill, consideration around its implementation and how we can better wrap care around families in general is really important.

There are so many people across the country and organizations doing amazing work. There's not a lot of coordination or support, and I think a national approach to education, resources and advocacy for families would make a really big difference. There's an opportunity to include some elements of that in this bill.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you, Madame Koutrakis.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for coming today and sharing their testimony.

Our next meeting will be on Monday, March 23, when we will resume the study on Bill C-222.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.