Human Resources Committee on April 20th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I have to stop you there.

[Richard Lyall]

I'd love to follow up on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Please do. We were 30 seconds over.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses once again for being with us this afternoon to contribute to our discussion.

I have two and a half minutes, so I'm going to ask several questions right away. I'd like to hear from the FRAPRU representative first, and then from Mr. Ross and Mr. Lyall.

My questions follow up on my remarks during my first round of questions. We know that Quebec already has solid expertise in co-operatives. In my riding in the Eastern Townships, housing co-operatives are doing an extraordinary job. We have models. In Racine, there is La Brunante, a housing co‑operative for seniors. They even went to meet with the World Health Organization to demonstrate just how much their co‑operative model really helps seniors age in better health, and therefore how great a model it is.

Why wouldn't Ottawa directly fund the existing Quebec models? That would be my first question.

Here's my second question: What proportion of investments should be set aside for co-operatives specifically?

Third, are you concerned that a new federal structure might slow down projects that are ready to launch?

I'd like to hear FRAPRU's perspective.

[Catherine Lussier]

Those are three excellent questions. I'll try to be brief.

Regarding the Quebec model, I think we really must always base our approach on the needs of the community. So, if the community is mobilized around a housing co‑operative, that will meet a need for that type of living environment, just as non-profit organizations or low-income housing meet different needs.

In our opinion, all investments should go toward social and community housing, because that's the type of housing that truly meets current needs, particularly the needs of households most affected by the crisis. In our opinion, it shouldn't just be a significant proportion; everything that comes from public funds should be directed more toward social and community housing.

Will the agency be able to meet these needs? I think it will really depend on the targets it sets for itself, on how affordability is defined and on how these funds are actually invested to respond quickly to needs. If there is a genuine commitment, we believe it is possible to direct investments where they are needed. So, yes, everything will depend on the agency's targets and, obviously, on how quickly the investments can be made thereafter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We'll now conclude the first round with four minutes for Ms. Falk and Madame Koutrakis.

Go ahead, Ms. Falk, for four minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Lyall, I'd like to start with you.

In a recent article published in the Canadian Contractor, you wrote that “housing affordability isn't just a social issue, it's an economic one as well.” Can you expand on what happens to the broader economy when housing becomes unaffordable?

[Richard Lyall]

There are all kinds of things, and things we don't measure well. You can associate housing as a need that's inextricably tied to well-being in all respects. It's absolutely fundamental.

It's tied to investment. If you want to attract investment, investors are going to look at where people live. What are we paying them relative to their cost of housing? Housing is the most expensive cost most people incur in their lives—the biggest thing they ever buy.

It lies at the root of so many things. The Scandinavians are way ahead of us on research on how housing relates to health care recovery and education. A really interesting study was done in relation to Toronto on the need to renovate existing houses in social housing projects. It showed that if you have deteriorating occupancy, your health care costs go right through the roof. The only problem there is that it's in a separate budgetary envelope, so people aren't connecting the dots. It's the same thing at the federal level: What's the connection, the alignment, between housing, health care and immigration?

The three fundamentals are food, shelter and security. They're needs. They're real needs for most people, but we haven't been treating housing as a need. We've been treating it, by and large—although it's different across the country—as a want. In a healthy housing market, the private sector has to work, because that's the bulk of it, but you have social housing needs that must be met at the same time. They both need to be addressed.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you.

Mr. Ross, you referred to “modest rents” in your opening statement. I'm wondering what your definition of “modest rents” is. What does that mean?

[Tim Ross]

In short, affordability is based on household income and not on market rents. A modest rent would be an economic break-even rent delivered by a not-for-profit or co-op that covers the cost of financing operations and future capital needs. At a household level, a home is affordable if a household does not have to spend more than 30% of its gross income on shelter.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Is there a specific number across the country? I know you gave me a definition per se, but is there an actual number, rather than a percentage, that Canadians would see as affordable? I know it's kind of convoluted and very grey, but just for people listening at home, what would that number be?

[Tim Ross]

There's not one number, because it is based on household income. Organizations and academic researchers like HART—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Does the region of the country factor into this as well, then?

[Tim Ross]

Yes, there are certainly regional variances.

An organization called HART has created a sound methodology to establish what an affordable rent would be for each income quintile, so I would refer you to the HART methodology for establishing what an affordable rent looks like based on household income and based on a specific region.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

To conclude, we will go to Madame Koutrakis for four minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for appearing here today.

We've heard quite a bit of testimony this afternoon around co-op housing and shovel-ready projects, and just now on affordable rent.

I'm wondering if I could hear from each of the witnesses, please. Build Canada Homes includes a significant investment of $1 billion in supportive and transitional housing. How important is this type of housing in addressing urgent and complex housing needs, and what impact do you expect this investment to have on vulnerable populations? We haven't touched on that, and I thought it would be important for us to hear something on that today.

I'll start with Mr. Ross.

[Tim Ross]

Certainly a focused investment on deeply affordable supportive housing is critical for meeting the housing needs of those who are at risk of homelessness, are experiencing homelessness or are precariously housed.

To put into context the full scale of housing need at the lower end of the housing spectrum, CMHC and other experts estimate that Canada needs about 3.5 million to four million additional homes overall to restore affordability, but what's critical is the mix of that supply. Multiple studies and policy bodies, including the National Housing Council, agree that the private market alone can't meet the affordability needs of all Canadian households. Between one-quarter and one-half of new supply needs to be non-market, co-op, not-for-profit community housing and supportive housing so that rents are linked to incomes and protected over the long term. That would translate to the need for approximately one million new non-market homes at least, nationwide, over the next decade.

Without building at that scale, we may add supply, but we won't restore affordability for all.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Madame Lussier, would you comment?

[Catherine Lussier]

I'd like to add a bit of information to what Mr. Ross said.

Yes, it's crucial. We are seeing this right now as homelessness is on the rise in various regions. However, we must also consider long-term solutions. We need transitional housing, but we also need solutions so that, when these individuals leave that housing, they don't end up homeless either.

So, yes, it is crucial, and we are very pleased that, among the investments, funds have been set aside for that.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Mr. Lyall, would you like to add something to that?

[Richard Lyall]

Yes, sure.

As I said before, it's a balance of interests, but I think this is where it's instructive to look at what other jurisdictions are apparently doing better than we are. I've been to Tokyo a few times. That's a city with almost the population of Canada, and I was fascinated that they have not had the housing crisis that we have had, and they have very good housing. It's a complicated story. About 5% of their housing is what you would call social housing.

Transitional housing was an interesting question. We donated a transitional housing project. It was something we did. I've been involved in a research project with CMHC and with women's shelters with the YWCA and the Schulich School of Business, and yes, we need transitional housing. It needs to be transitional, not transitional housing that becomes permanent housing, but it's vitally important. Especially in the world of mental health and things related to that where people are struggling and need a place to call home, a respectful place to live to turn their lives around, it's vitally important. Do we have enough of it? No. Do we need more? Yes. Is there a role for the state there? Yes.

In my view, at the end of the day, if 90% of the housing that we've produced is in the private sector, make sure the market is working efficiently. It isn't right now, by and large. It isn't working as efficiently as it could be. Also, make sure that you're building whatever the number might be at the end of the day. I can't speak to that. Mr. Ross and Ms. Lussier are much more knowledgeable than I am on that, but make sure that we're dealing with that as well. It's vitally important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Koutrakis.

That concludes the first hour of witness testimony in this study. We'll suspend for a few minutes while we transition to the next group of witnesses.

To all the witnesses who appeared in the first hour, thank you for your testimony.

We will suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back, committee members.

We'd like to resume today's committee business with the second panel. I would remind the new witnesses who are joining us that you have the option to participate in the official language of your choice by choosing the proper channel and using the earpiece on the microphone in front of you. If there is an interruption in interpretation, please get my attention and we'll suspend while it is corrected.

For this hour, we have three witnesses. We have David Wilkes, president and chief executive officer of the Building Industry and Land Development Association. From the Ontario Home Builders' Association, we have Scott Andison, chief executive officer. From the Toronto Community Housing Corporation, we have Sean Baird, president and chief executive officer.

Each of you will have five minutes for an opening statement, and I would ask you to keep as close to the five minutes as possible.

We'll begin with Mr. Wilkes for five minutes.

[David Wilkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Building Industry and Land Development Association]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, committee members, for the opportunity to speak to you this afternoon. I appreciate the invitation to appear today to share our organization's perspective on Bill C-20, an act to enable Build Canada Homes.

As the chair mentioned, my name is Dave Wilkes, and I'm the president and CEO of the Building Industry and Land Development Association. BILD represents home builders, developers and professional renovators across the greater Toronto area and Simcoe County. We also co-facilitate another group, the Large Urban Centre Alliance. This is a coalition of leading developers and builders from Canada's major metropolitan areas.

While my remarks today will focus on Build Canada Homes, I'd be remiss not to first acknowledge the federal government's recent announcements on housing—in particular, the expansion of an HST rebate in Ontario to lower the cost of new homes, and, through the build communities strong fund, the bilateral agreement with Ontario to reduce development charges, as well as the $6-billion direct delivery system. We look forward to working with the government to implement these types of historic changes elsewhere in Canada. These are meaningful and necessary steps to help move our industry out of the historic housing crisis we currently find ourselves in.

To put that crisis into perspective, in 2025 just over 5,000 new homes were sold in the GTA, the lowest level since we began tracking in 1981. That is an 80% decline from the 10-year average and follows similarly weak years in 2024 and 2023. This contagion, as we call it, has spread across the country. I provided the clerk with a chart that illustrates that sales are also down in areas like Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and the greater Golden Horseshoe. We appreciate the federal government's recognition of the scale and urgency of this challenge and its commitment to being part of the solution.

Build Canada Homes is an important part of a broader strategy to double housing construction over the next decade. We have been actively engaged with BCH since its inception. When the market sounding guide was released in August 2025, the alliance provided feedback that remains central today.

First, the federal government must continue supporting the full spectrum of housing, including market ownership, affordable ownership, rental, and mixed tenure. Without this balance, national housing targets will not be met.

It is important to note that 95% of the housing in Canada, both ownership and rental, is delivered through the private market. As governments continue their efforts to make housing initiatives successful, including by expanding supply, it remains essential to consider and work alongside the significant role played by the private sector in delivering housing.

Second, BCH must enable a portfolio approach, one that blends market and affordable houses, to ensure the viability of large-scale master-planned communities. We are encouraged to see this reflected in BCH's direction today.

BCH's stated commitment to providing stable, long-term, low-cost financing, to supporting both private and non-profit providers and to advancing projects at scale is exactly the kind of partnership model our industry has long advocated for. We're also seeing early signs of this approach taking hold, with municipalities already engaging BILD members on portfolio-based strategies.

Finally, BCH's recent report outlining recommendations to expand non-market housing supply offered a few key recommendations that are welcome contributions to the discourse. We strongly support BCH's recommendation to improve access to comprehensive, publicly available new housing data, to provide clarity on the future of the national housing strategy and long-term funding commitments, and to continue to work with provinces and municipalities to reduce development charges, invest in enabling infrastructure and establish more predictable funding models.

In closing, Build Canada Homes represents a significant opportunity to strengthen collaboration between government and industry, accelerate housing supply, and support feasibility. The expertise and capacity of the private sector will be essential to achieving these federal housing objectives.

Thank you to the members of the committee for the opportunity to appear today. I look forward to the discussion and the questions that follow.