I think our members and our union leadership are generally quite happy with the Red Seal trades system. The Red Seal was really put together to overcome all of the challenges that we're identifying here today in terms of differences in apprenticeship hours, differences in standards and so on so that there's one national standard.
Not all tradespeople become Red Seal journeymen. Getting the Red Seal gives you the mobility to travel across different provinces, but many just get their licence or their voluntary certification and stay within their home communities to practise their trade.
I think there are things that could be improved in the testing and the availability of testing to make the Red Seal exam more worker-friendly. In some jurisdictions—in Ontario, for example—for Red Seal qualification and licensing, the government allows the apprentice to take the test within their own union hall. Not all jurisdictions allow that. In some jurisdictions, you have to go to a central body, a college, and the college is only available on certain dates at certain times.
There are things that can be improved in terms of the availability of testing through the Red Seal program that will improve labour mobility, but generally, notwithstanding the comments I made earlier and the comments that Martin has made, the Red Seal system works pretty well. It needs to be tweaked, not overhauled.