That's no problem. Thank you.
Look, I think there are some programs that are helpful. I want to put it in context. I'm a toolmaker. I'm a tradesman. That's how I started. When I started, over 40 years ago, the incentive to be a toolmaker was $7,200. I was making probably $31,000. It was well known that as an apprentice, I would probably make more mistakes and be more costly to the company for the first five years than they would make off me. Today, my son, who went into the same trade of toolmaking that I went into, has received $4,000 a year. So if we say we're going to invest in tradespeople, and that's 40 years later, then there's something specifically wrong.
There are still investments, and they do help, but I would say they're largely borne by the employer who's committed to those tradespeople. We're employing them and creating income for them while they learn. It's a great program. I am a big fan. Everything should be apprenticeships or paid co-ops. Internships should be banned if they're not paid. I have interns who come and work for me. When it comes to human resources, everyone gets paid. No one works for free in my company. I just don't believe in it.
There are some good programs. We have used them. I just wish that there were more and that they were more in line with what's needed in today's economy.