Evidence of meeting #9 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Ricketts.
Thank you, Mr. Genuis.
Madame Desrochers, you have six minutes, please.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the speakers. I think you've all brought a lot of very thoughtful engagement to this, and I really appreciate the constructive aspect of today's discussion.
My first question is to all of you. We're seeing an increase around the world and in Canada of polarization, whether it's around immigration issues or the importance of DEI initiatives. You spoke about how Black youth have a higher rate of unemployment.
Ms. Ricketts, you also talked about under-represented groups.
How much do you think that divisive, polarizing language impacts those groups when it comes to finding employment? That is for whoever wants to start.
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
I can start, if you want.
I don't know if it's the polarizing words or anything else. I think it's just that traditionally you would have found a Caucasian male in the trades. The opportunities that should be presented are more unknown. I believe they say indigenous people make up 5% of our trades workforce. I think women make up 12% of the construction industry. These are the individuals we need to reach out to. We just need to make it more encompassing and make them more aware of the opportunities and, again, remove the stigma as to what the construction industry is like to work in and the idea of this traditional role.
Executive Director, CEE Centre for Young Black Professionals
From my perspective, in the conversation around whether DEI should or shouldn't exist, etc., folks are very concerned about the numbers and the success rates. The numbers don't lie, and the numbers are telling us that Black youth are being left behind. Whether we want to call it DEI or whether we want to call it whatever, something needs to change. Whatever we want to call it, opportunity needs to start knocking on their doors. The conversation is irrelevant if we're not going to move towards actual change.
For our organization, it's about access for all Canadians, including Black youth. Right now, if we sit at a 24.5% unemployment rate, that is a problem for Canada to address, not Black youth and not our organization as a whole. The conversation can continue, but it needs to then move into some type of action that addresses this very immediate need.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
We've talked a lot about skills and the lack of youth enrolling in the skilled trades. That's been a recurring theme of this study over the last few weeks.
Would you agree that the government has sent a very strong signal, whether it's setting up Build Canada Homes, setting up the Major Projects Office, launching the programs on the skilled trades or helping groups to re-skill? We are sending those signals that those are important and those are the jobs we need to rebuild.
Are those the right signals to send?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
They are, yes. The careers, the jobs and the projects are really important, but there's a push and pull.
You can push the information out and you can try to push the youth into the trades, but there has to be a pull factor from employers as well. That's why I talk about incentives. There have to be jobs. It doesn't matter if you're a small employer or a large one, there's a budget to meet, there are financial obligations and it's a cost to a project. You have to be able to ensure that your employers—your clients—are creating positions for apprentices.
The reality is that it is expensive. It's more expensive to hire somebody and train them on a project in an apprenticeship role than just to hire a journeyman in that same position and have them do the work.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Hersch, I wonder if you have anything to add on that.
October 21st, 2025 / 12:35 p.m.
Managing Director, YouthjobsCanada
I entirely agree with Ms. Ricketts. The stimulus has to come from the employer level. We can't emphasize that enough.
In our recommendations, there's a theme in there. We see a disconnect between what's going on with the efforts.... It's not to discredit or undervalue anything the federal government has invested in terms of the skills and experience layers for youth, but it has to be looked at in an equation, which is skills and experience plus opportunities equal results. It's just that simple. We have an incomplete equation going on right now across the country.
The employers need to be on board. In order to get the employers on board to start that employment curve back in high school.... Looking at countries that are the educated, industrialized countries in western Europe, they do this. We don't. We need to do a better job with this.
In short form, there's a disconnect that we see. We need to work on closing that gap between what's going on in the free market economy and what employers need. We need to look at this as an equity investment from the stakeholders on both the market side and the social side, supported by the federal government. Once we start to change that philosophy to be a bit more holistic, I think we're going to start seeing real results.
I'll leave it at that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Hersch and Madame Desrochers.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I'd like to thank all the witnesses who are sharing their expertise with us today. It will help the committee to go further in its reflection and recommendations.
Ms. Gessesse, in your experience with Black youth, what barriers do you see most often? You mentioned the daunting 24% unemployment rate. How can this be solved?
I know it's general, but the committee needs recommendations to be able to help these young people.
Executive Director, CEE Centre for Young Black Professionals
Number one, we can't just offer skills development. This also has to come with wraparound supports. It's about paying attention to the life stabilization of a young person, because even if they find a job, if their mental health is not where it needs to be or they are experiencing housing or food insecurity, it will be very difficult for them to show up for their job as their best self.
Number two, I think the government can play a much better role in coordinating with non-profits like ours. In terms of government corporations, there needs to be significant collaboration, using the government as a connector. Most of the time, what we're doing is looking at the labour gaps, doing a study, figuring out where there are labour gaps and looking at where the government is putting its money.
I'll use the example of critical minerals. The government has been talking highly about it and has been investing money in that industry. There will be jobs, so we develop a program. However, there seems to be a disconnect between what we're seeing and where the government sees value in an organization like ours creating an opportunity for that to happen.
We're following where we see labour gaps, but that doesn't always mean that employers are going to be flocking to us just because we're doing that. Like I said, we're a charity. We don't have much of a reach or many resources, so if the government is investing in industry, it needs to initiate those relationships with community organizations to better collaborate. That would be a huge help, because we are looking at where the government is putting its money and we're looking at what the labour trends are. We have the young people and we have their readiness. The reality is that there needs to be an assist in getting to industry. That's one thing.
The other thing is that a lot of the industries we're doing work on are very foreign to our communities. Ms. Ricketts spoke about this. Talking about critical minerals, for instance, when we decided we wanted to go into that industry, we had to run an exploratory program so that people could understand what critical minerals were and what types of jobs they could have. We can then see the interest of young people and narrow down exactly where we should be running the skilled trades part of the program.
It's about access and understanding what opportunities are out there, because our young people are exploring this in their schools. We run an entertainment trades program so that people understand you can have trades in the entertainment industry, such as carpenters, electricians and set designers. All of those folks are also needed in the entertainment industry, and that is something new to the young people we're serving. We have 125 applicants for 15 spots.
It's about exposure and having access to employers who are doing this work. It's not as easy as following where the labour gaps are, because industry needs encouragement to engage with not-for-profit organizations as well.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you very much, Ms. Gessesse.
Ms. Ricketts, in a completely different vein, you talked about access and understanding. That's definitely what's keeping us from generalizing. As Ms. Ricketts mentioned earlier, the issue of youth unemployment is sometimes associated with the issue of employment insurance.
You also mentioned some potential solutions for employment insurance. Some young people aren't necessarily in school or unemployed, and the lack of funding sometimes makes it harder to have training initiatives.
What would you suggest we do to support young people in difficult situations in terms of their training and employment endeavours?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
I think it's grants. We talk about loans, but I think grants are the way to go. There is a cyclical nature to a lot of the construction work. I don't want to say project-based work is feast or famine; it's not famine all the time. There's an ebb and flow.
I have a lot of friends who are trades professionals. When they had done their first period of school.... When they were doing their training because they had gotten into an apprenticeship, they still had to go off to school. In some cases, it took up to a month or a month and a half to get EI. On apprentice rates, people aren't making a huge amount of money. If they're living with their family, that might help, but they probably still have some payments to make. If they are single parents, they cannot go without a paycheque or any income for six to eight weeks. That's where the grants really come in.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Madame Gill.
Now we go to Mr. Reynolds for five minutes, please.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for coming today.
My question is for Ms. Ricketts. I'm actually a construction electrician myself, so I've been through the apprenticeship program and everything. What do you see as the single biggest barrier preventing our youth from entering the trades?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
It's opportunity—finances and opportunity. You can expose the youth to the opportunities, but they don't know how to access them and there might not be jobs available. Even if they do start an apprenticeship, it's being able to finish that apprenticeship all the way through. It's not only attracting them in, because we did increase the number of apprentices who registered, but completion rates. In 2022, completion rates for apprentices for men in the 15 Red Seal trades was 46%, so 54% of people who registered for the trades dropped out of them.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Do you think our slowing economy is affecting those completion rates?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
I do, yes. We need to have the jobs and projects. We know that. I was really happy to see the government stimulate the economy with projects, but again, we're going to have to really look at incentivizing the employers to ensure that they are creating opportunities.
It comes down to clients as well. I saw this with the Dow project, in Edmonton, with ITC requirements. They actually have to meet a minimum. There are a minimum number of apprentices they have to hire on their projects, so they have to ensure that contractors are hiring that number of apprentices.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
What do you think, other than the economy, of course, and having the projects...? Completion rates are still a problem in apprenticeships. Assuming that we have the jobs and the work, what can we do to improve apprenticeship completion rates?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
It comes down to the finances—ensuring that our apprentices have the money that allows them to ebb and flow with the projects, and ensuring that we're giving money to the schools so that we have enough seats open to get individuals into the technical training they need to do.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
In your opening statement you talked about apprenticeship mobility and standardizing that federally. Obviously, apprenticeships are provincially managed. It isn't until you're a Red Seal that you have mobility. What do you think we could do to...? That's a tough fight to have. You're fighting it out with each province, and the programs are so different in each province. What could we do federally to standardize apprenticeship and enable apprentice mobility interprovincially?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
We manage to do it with the Red Seal program. I really believe it's bringing those provincial bodies into a discussion and really looking at the technical training elements of each different apprenticeship and level of apprenticeship. Even right now, between Alberta and B.C., I can't take an Alberta apprentice pipefitter and have them work in B.C. without going through the B.C. government, through SkilledTradesBC. I think there needs to be a credential recognition. If somebody is a registered apprentice in a province, and they are able to prove and show some of the skill set—i.e. a letter from an employer saying they had specific training—then it should be easily recognized in another province where they're going to be working.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Do you see an openness or willingness from the provinces to look at that?
Head of Trades Strategy and Recruitment, North America, Kiewit Corporation
I haven't dealt with any of the provinces in the east or the Maritimes, but, yes, in the west, for sure. I sit at the board of directors with a few of the people from the different apprenticeship programs, and, yes, there is definitely a willingness to look at credential recognition.