Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 5th, 2006

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I come from a province where we have a fantastic program. As everybody knows, we get a large amount of money from the federal government. With this money, we divide the population into adults on the one hand and children on the other.

For children, we have what we call welcoming classes. These are special classes in which all the immigrant children who have just arrived are put together and taught one or two subjects—if it's in Quebec, in French, and if it's in the rest of Canada, in English. These welcoming classes are set up in regular schools. The children stay there for 10 months, more or less, and when it is deemed that they have enough language skills to move on to a regular class, they move on, at which time they may get a little extra help outside of the regular class.

For the adults, there are any number of programs. Some of the programs are administered directly by the province's ministry of education, and adults go to school all day. In Quebec, they are paid to do this. It's not a huge amount of money, but a stipend. They're paid to stay in these classes in which there is nothing but immigrants all day long. They stay about ten months as well, until it is deemed they have learned enough English to be able to go on.

There are many other groups that cooperate. I've told you about the administration through what we call school boards—that is, school administrations—but there are all sorts of NGOs, non-governmental agencies, that also receive money from various levels of government, whether provincial or federal, and they help out in teaching the language.

What we teach—and I'm speaking specifically about Quebec here, because Quebec has had a longstanding agreement with the federal government, and the other provinces came in later—is not just language; it's also culture. There's an emphasis not just on learning the words but on learning about Quebec's history, problems, and so on. The cultural part is integral, both for the children and the adults.

When I said earlier that the linguistic and cultural integration of immigrants is very important, as far as I'm concerned, that is really where the money should go. Once you've decided how you're going to divide the money between getting the people in the country and what happens there, the whole problem of how to get people to integrate is absolutely major.

If I could say one more word, we're running into a big problem with professionals who come—doctors, pharmacists, dentists, lawyers, and so on. When they arrive in the country, they are not allowed to practice. We've run into problems with the professional corporations, and this is something that has to be looked into. I would strongly suggest that you look into this question even before you start receiving, because once they get there.... We ended up having doctorates driving taxis, which is horrible.

I'm sorry I took so much time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Good contribution.

We have two people who haven't had a chance to have a word--Blair and Ed.

Bill, I think I'll have to divide the time between Blair and Ed.

Oh, you spoke once already.

Okay, Ed.

If we have a couple of minutes left over, Bill or Blair can have a go.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I won't ask too many questions.

Further to what Madam Folco was saying, of course, the federal government does provide integration and settlement funds to the provinces, which work in the area of integration and language training, as do third parties and school boards. It's kind of a cooperative thing therein. We've proposed as a government a credential recognition committee to help out with those who come in with credentials that we might recognize in our country.

The area I wanted to speak about is.... You were looking at promoting work-based immigration, and of course you'll probably have the social side of it as well. But the work-based portion, where you'll be looking to bring in more skilled workers and temporary foreign workers, is something we're doing now. I'm hoping we don't get into a competition in that area, but it seems, for the same reasons, because of an aging population in a fairly strong economy, we're facing similar problems to what you are.

We've had a program called the provincial nominee program. It works differently from province to province. Some provinces have capitalized on it--Manitoba, for instance, Saskatchewan to some degree, Ontario not quite yet. What they've done is they've matched employers needing a particular skilled person with employees, and they actively recruit the people who are trying to meet the expectation with someone who's looking for that particular skill or trade. Immigration facilitates that provincial application and tries to get it processed more quickly than the normal stream of immigration.

It seems to be working reasonably well where it is working. The problems are still timing and how long it takes to do the matching. Many would like to see a far shorter time; nonetheless, it's a lot quicker than going through the regular stream in immigration. Some provinces have been able to do that relatively successfully.

We also have a situation that's developed in some of the more major centres where perhaps because it's difficult to get through the system in the regular way, people have filled particular jobs and opportunities without coming through the system, perhaps in a measure because the system has not been properly geared for what's happening in the economy and in the trades. The provinces are slowly trying to address that. We have a good group of people who are working but have not been regularized.

I think the system could be improved, and when you're looking at this issue of skills and trades and working, you have to be sure you develop a system that will meet the needs, so to speak, as opposed to blocking those who might be legitimate entrants. You'll find that those who want to come in on the skilled areas or trade areas generally come from places that have some connection to family. In other words, if there's a housing contractor and his community is involved in that business, they will be attracted to that trade.

So somehow if you can combine the need for the workers with the objectives of the communities there, it might be helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Are there any last comments?

Did you feel a need to ask your question?

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Just quickly, I wanted to say that one other aspect is the refugee class. If you're looking to get people who are motivated and want to take an active role in your society, that's an area that should seriously be looked at. We have areas in Africa, a few from Iraq and Afghanistan, where people are looking for homes. At the same time, with the aging population we're talking about, there are going to be jobs that don't require a lot of skill that need to be done in society.

If you get people like that who are coming to your country, they'll develop their language and greater skills, but at the same time they'll take up jobs that society needs to have done. At the same time you're providing them with a new, safe home.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Bill, this is your last comment.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I just wanted to touch briefly on the whole issue of temporary workers, because that's a serious problem. I think temporary workers in Canada tend to be the most exploited workers in our society. Agricultural workers often work in difficult working conditions with no enforcement of labour or health standards and no access to our social programs. That's been a huge problem, and it continues to be a huge problem.

Another class of temporary workers in Canada is live-in caregivers, nannies, who have an extradited process towards citizenship but little ability to move between employers, and some real restrictions on their working life in Canada. There are serious considerations about their working conditions, having to live with their employer, that kind of thing, and they have no way around that. So there are some serious problems with the situation of temporary workers in Canada.

The other problem with temporary work is that an employer can go through a process to certify that there is a need for a certain skill set that isn't available in the Canadian workforce and bring in workers from another country on a temporary basis. I think in various places there are concerns now about what that really means and about that certification process. In my own home community, it seems, for instance, applications are being approved and decisions are being made on the basis that a foreign worker is available to work more cheaply than a Canadian is. That thinking flies in the face of some of the criteria that have been established for the program, and it also flies in the face of our ability to maintain a Canadian standard of living and certain working conditions that are important. Many of our unions have difficulty with that kind of program, for instance.

You mentioned the higher unemployment in Lapland. That's an issue here as well when it comes to temporary foreign workers. Do we make it possible for a worker to move from another part of Canada to take that job rather than bringing someone in from outside the country? And finally, do our companies give the kind of internal training that makes it possible for them to fill these positions that they say can't be filled from within Canada? Canada has a terrible record on corporate job training. Employers don't do a lot of job training. Europe presents a much better example in that area. So it's another part of that mix.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you very much. I hope we've been helpful in some way. And now that you've been here, I think it's only fair if you'd issue an invitation for us to go to Finland and visit you at the nicest time of the year.

What time of the year is a good time of year to visit Finland? Any time.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

Thank you very much. Perhaps we have given too pessimistic a picture of Finland. That's not what it's like, actually. It's a marvellous country, and we welcome all Canadians to come to Finland.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

To work or as a tourist?

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

To work and....

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

What is a good time of year for tourists in Finland?

[A witness]

Right now.

[A witness]

In Lapland, April.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, it's been great having you. Thank you.

[Liisa Jaakonsaari]

Thank you.

I have a small present from the Finnish Parliament. It's our national symbol. It's a lion. We have no lions, but it's a symbol.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you very much.

Members, we'll be televising our committee meeting on Wednesday. The minister will be in for main estimates, so be on your worst or best behaviour, whichever is appropriate for you at that time.

Thank you very much to our Finnish friends.

The meeting is adjourned.