Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We're ready to start our committee meeting. I want to welcome the minister to the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

I want to remind all that our proceedings today will be televised. The minister is here, of course, to present his estimates for the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. As you can see from the form that's been handed out, it will be votes 1, 5, and 10 under the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, which have been referred to our committee today. As per usual, we will examine these estimates for two hours today, and we will finish at 5:30 p.m.

The minister has with him his deputy minister, Janice Charette, and Mr. Wayne Ganim, chief financial officer and director general of the financial branch.

Welcome to all of you.

The minister generally has an opening statement, after which of course we will go to questions and discussion on the estimates he's presenting today.

So, Mr. Minister, maybe I'll call upon you to begin when you're ready, at your convenience. We'll take it from there.

Thank you.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, honourable members.

Over a month ago I was pleased to outline the challenges before this government and this committee of Parliament in terms of welcoming newcomers to Canada.

I sincerely welcome my second my opportunity to appear before this committee and once again seek your help and guidance in meeting these challenges.

A major step toward that goal is to review with you the changes in the department's main estimates since last year and to seek your support for this funding.

Before we address those changes, I would like to perhaps outline my goal for Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I believe that working in partnership we can substantially improve the process we use to attract and to provide services to those who choose Canada as their new home.

I will see that the department improves the efficiency of our programs and operations. We will demonstrate to new immigrants that our policies present and promote opportunities for a new life. I assure all members that fairness will always be a fundamental principle that guides our responses to the often desperate plight of legitimate refugees and their families.

I believe the discussion of these main estimates presents all of us with a unique opportunity to truly work together in the best interests and spirit of our parliamentary democracy and to demonstrate to those contemplating becoming new Canadians that we are worthy of their choice and trust.

Immigration is about the future of our country.

A well-managed and welcoming immigration system contributes greatly to our demography, to our economy, and to our social and cultural diversity by making Canada a sound socio-cultural model for the rest of the world to admire. Yet settlement services funding was frozen in 1996. As the levels were increased in the late 1990s and in the early years in this decade, resources were stretched even further. It's no surprise the provinces were desperate for resources.

This is why we are focusing much of our attention and our financial resources on the issue of integration. A well-managed immigration system should be able to welcome immigrants quickly and help them succeed.

You will note that we have dedicated resources toward this goal. In fact, let me make it quite clear that this year we are working toward reaching a high end of the government's planning range for admitting newcomers, which, as you know, is around 255 persons. We feel this is good for Canada, and in fact this intake will help address the labour shortages we are facing.

As I have said, the goal of this government is not merely to land a planned number of immigrants; it is to focus on outcomes and to ensure that every newcomer has a good start. This government will work to ensure immigrants are supported in their efforts to adapt and become contributors to our society.

Research shows that at the beginning of the 1980s, two-thirds--66%--of skilled workers earned more than the Canadian average income one year after their arrival. By 1996 that had fallen to just 4% of newcomers earning more than native-born Canadians one year after their arrival. This is a loss both to the individuals and to their families, and to Canada as a whole.

We simply have to do a better job of ensuring that our new citizens land on their feet when they get here.

This is also why the government is seriously looking into how to best recognize and utilize foreign credentials. We've all heard the stories of engineers and doctors driving taxis even when there is an acute demand for precisely their skills and experience. Canada can do better, and it will. We have committed $18 million to the 2006 budget to take on this issue. The money will help us work with our provincial partners toward the creation of a new agency that will support the assessment and recognition of foreign credentials. I will speak more of this initiative later in my remarks.

Members can appreciate and recognize that a government's main estimates are by their very nature very broad outlines of a government's funding intentions in support of stated and agreed policies over a period of one year. I wish to be transparent and accountable. I am eager to answer your questions about what is in the main estimates to the best of my ability, and I am prepared to address your questions about items you may have expected to see here but that are anticipated for the fall supplements.

Let me begin by giving you the big picture of the overall expenditures. Then I will break down the changes so that you will be able to see where the principal ones have occurred.

Under item 1, members will note that Citizenship and Immigration Canada's main estimates for 2006-07 are $1.2268 billion, a net increase of $392.9 million from the previous fiscal year. I would ask committee members to note that individual items, items that I understand could be of a direct and deep interest, are not displayed separately in the main estimates, with the exception of grants and contributions.

Under item 1, resources related to the Toronto waterfront revitalization initiative—more commonly known as the TWRI—in the amount of $115.8 million, will be transferred to the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat in the 2006-07 supplementary estimates as a result of the change in responsibility in this project.

As mentioned previously, there will be an increase of $392.9 million in the department's main estimates over the previous fiscal year. I would, however, want to point out that this figure is actually $277 million when one takes into account the transfer of the $115.8 million related to the TWRI. The $277 million represents an increase to CIC of 33% over last year's main estimates.

I know some members of this committee have expressed concern that CIC is not one of the new Conservative government's stated five priorities. Well, there are words and there is action. I think you will agree with me that a one-third increase in the overall budget shows this government's commitment to Citizenship and Immigration Canada's mandate and our shared goals.

This budgetary increase is in large part due to the following: additional settlement funding to immigrant outcomes in provinces outside of Quebec, with Ontario receiving $110.5 million and others receiving $42.3 million; additional resources for escalation costs under the grant for the Canada-Quebec accord on immigration, $14.6 million; funding of $77.2 million has been earmarked to address short-term pressures in the areas of citizenship inventory, parents and grandparents, and international students; $7.6 million has been dedicated to improving our service to clients, including the “Going to Canada” website; an additional $16.8 million will help address the ongoing shortfall in funding for the interim federal health program, which provides temporary health coverage for refugee claimants, convention refugees, and persons under immigration detention.

As part of a broader initiative that includes partners such as the Immigration and Refugee Board, the Department of Justice, and the Canada Border Services Agency, CIC will receive $2.9 million to support enhancement of the refugee determination system, including faster processing, a reduction in pending caseloads, and the speeding up of grants of permanent residence for persons recognized as refugees.

Members should note that the 2006-07 main estimates include reductions due to government-wide reallocation initiatives from the 2003 federal budget, transfers related to the creation of the Canada Border Services Agency, and the sunsetting of funding related to the global case management system or GCMS project.

I would be remiss if I did not briefly mention some other progressive initiatives that the government is adopting, all of which focus on improving outcomes for immigrants.

The right of permanent residence fee, the RPRF, has been reduced by half, from $975 to $490, for immigrants who become permanent residents under all social, humanitarian, and economic classes.

To keep our promise to support Canadian families wishing to adopt foreign-born children, we've recently introduced legislation that makes it far easier for such children adopted by Canadian parents to become Canadian citizens once the adoption is finalized.

Approximately 100,000 foreign students currently studying in Canada can now apply for off-campus work permits.

We are also taking steps to establish the Canadian Agency for the Assessment of Foreign Credentials. Though this agency is not within my mandate, I would like to indicate my support for the initiative spearheaded by Minister Diane Finley. We need to ensure that barriers to an efficient and flexible labour market, such as the lack of recognition of hard-earned but foreign credentials, are reviewed and, where warranted, removed.

I have outlined my goals for improved policies and operations that can only serve to strengthen CIC's mandate and performance. My view and goal is quite simple: the better the job we do at helping newcomers integrate into Canadian society, the better it is for immigrants, and, in the final analysis, the better it is for Canada and Canadians.

I believe that our funding intentions reflect the deep commitment that the Government has made to better support newcomers to Canada and to ensure they can fully contribute to our communities and economy.

As I stated before, the introduction and approval today of the department's main estimates, estimates that provide significant and additional funding, will be a vitally important first step toward meeting those important objectives.

This is a strong beginning. Once again, I would like to thank you for allowing me to share my vision of the future of CIC, Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I look forward to working with this committee.

Thank you. Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Minister, for your opening statement. We will throw it open now for questioning.

Our method of questioning, as you're aware, is to begin with a seven-minute round, and when we complete our seven-minute round we will go to a five-minute round.

I'll begin with Andrew.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Bienvenue, Minister.

When you were talking, I heard you mention that the department has now set a target of 255,000 persons. Is that correct?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Yes, that's correct. As you know, the planning that was set by the previous government was a range from 225,000 to 255,000, and we're shooting for the high end.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I'm very glad you decided that you were going to work towards a target, because that was a point of contention with us in the past. So I'm very pleased to see that you are coming with targets.

The reason that targets are important is because...when you go on the government website, you will note that I believe for the year 1998-99, when I was parliamentary secretary, we missed the targets. They gave the reason as being Hong Kong and the change in status, but since then, from 2000 on, we've met and exceeded the targets in those timeframes. So it's an important point.

As you might be aware, we had the Auditor General before us, and one of the areas she talked about in her report and drew our attention to relates to temporary residence permits. She said the quality and consistency in these officers' decisions seem lacking. The Auditor General noted significant differences in approval rates among officers processing similar cases. Better selection criteria, better training, and better tools are required to assist these officers in their tasks.

Could you respond as to what is being done in your department on this and how it ties into the estimates?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, you raised the issue of the targets. Let me just touch on them briefly.

I think part of the confusion stems from the previous government's announcement in the 1993 red book that they would be shooting for 1% of the population as an immigration target. This was repeated by a number of people, including the former minister, Minister Sgro. So I think there was some confusion as to which targets we were talking about.

Setting that aside, it is important to have a target, but it's even more important to have good outcomes for the people who do arrive here. So we're trying to combine the two.

With respect to the issue of ensuring consistency in decisions by officials, it is an important goal. There is ongoing training to ensure that there is a consistency between officers when they make judgments on similar cases, but in the end, it's a difficult thing to determine what the intentions are of someone who is proposing to come to the country, so it is inexact.

That said, we must continue to improve the training, improve the risk profiles that every visa officer works from, to help them make determinations about who should be allowed to come into the country.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm glad we cleared up the confusion over the targets and the numbers. There is a difference, as you mentioned, between the red book, which is a very broad stroke, looking a long time into the future, and what governments do all the time. It's my sincere hope that your government will do as well in meeting the targets as we have done.

The other question I have for you relates to our having before us the chair of the refugee board. Maybe you can shed light on this. Basically, what he said was that currently we're taking 11 months to go from an application to a determination. He would like to reach a target of six months, which I think would be very beneficial to all of us. Can you give us some kind of indication as to how we might do that, what plans the department has to get us there?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

As you know, there is funding in the system right now to help with some of the backlogs in the department, in the Immigration and Refugee Board, so this is helpful. There has been great progress made. The IRB has reduced the backlog from 52,000 to about 20,000. We're hoping to reduce it even further.

In some cases, it requires resources; in other cases, it requires continued streamlining. Mr. Fleury, to his credit, has done a good job of implementing reforms that speed up the process.

I guess the answer to that is that we would love to see resources, of course, for these things, and we'll do our best to ensure that we don't have a backlog in this area. But that's part of a larger discussion that I'll have with the cabinet regarding an overall approach to dealing with the backlog we have in the system, which currently exceeds 800,000 people.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

One of the things he also mentioned is that there are vacancies on the board. He mentioned that it's a problem when governments change; there is a particular backup. So for him to be able to get to six months, he will require those positions to be filled quickly. I hope that happens in a timely fashion.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

That's a good point. Recently there were three new appointments and nine reappointments, and we want to do more on that. We're talking to Mr. Fleury, too, about reducing the overall time it takes to run an applicant through the system. It takes a very long time right now, about seven months. We're hoping that can be reduced as well so that the proper screening can still be done but more people can come forward more quickly.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You're right on the button there, Andrew, at seven minutes. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister.

Meili.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to let my colleague Johanne Deschamps start the question period with the Minister.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Good afternoon, Minister. It's a pleasure for us to have you here again.

My question mainly concerns the Global Case Management System. That system is supposed to replace a number of the department's administrative systems in order to facilitate communications and data sharing between the department and the Canada Border Services Agency.

According to the Auditor General's 2003 Status Report, system implementation was way behind schedule. In an article published on April 22 last, the Toronto Star reported that the program wouldn't at all do what was originally expected of it and that it was way behind schedule. It also stated that immigration and border service officials were tempted to lose confidence in the proposed system. Furthermore, the costs had apparently increased by 25 per cent to $243 million. We're a bit concerned. We don't want to relive the sad and infamous fiasco of the firearms registry.

The committee has often asked officials to conduct a periodic follow-up of progress on the project and changes in costs. However, according to my colleague, that hasn't been done.

I have a few questions that might follow from my comment. Can the Minister tell us where the Global Case Management System stands right now? How much has the system's introduction cost to date? When will the system be operational? How much money will have to be added before it is fully operational? Once the system is operational, what will be the annual cost to manage the system?

Some questions may require checks, but, if necessary, you could provide additional information and forward it to the committee, with regard to figures, for example.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, let me answer generally first.

The Monday after that article came out, I talked to the Auditor General about some of the issues raised in the article. I have since talked to the department. Perhaps this will give some assurance; this is a major project that is also regularly reviewed by Treasury Board. The project, in the end, will cost $243 million. I point out part of that increase in expenditure is caused by the fact that it is now being asked to do more than when it was conceived. Second, much of the extra cost will be absorbed within CIC. Money will be reallocated within the department to ensure we're not constantly going back.

The project is now on track, it's on schedule, and it's a topic of pretty constant conversation within the department, and I ask about it pretty regularly, but we will make sure to provide you with a breakdown, to the degree we can, to give you some assurance that things are moving along as they should.

I do believe this is a very good initiative. Some of these legacy systems we are working off now are 30 years old, and this will really give us the ability to work directly with CBSA. If I can say it this way, we have "ad hocked" year after year after year to connect the two systems; now they will talk directly, and that will benefit everyone.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Is it possible to get a list of the people who have obtained contracts? Can you tell me how those requests were made?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Contracts are on the website, but yes, absolutely, we can provide you with that.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Do we have any time left, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, we do have a minute and a half.

Go ahead.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I'd like to ask a question. If necessary, you can shorten my next five-minute period.

With regard to the recognition of foreign qualifications and titles, I believe the Minister is aware of specific agreements with Quebec regarding evaluation and integration. This is a real challenge.

Currently, there is uncertainty in the community about the department's objectives regarding the agency. Among other things, much progress has been made and a lot of investments have been made in recent years.

Does the Minister recognize those agreements? Does he also recognize the differences specific to Quebec, particularly with regard to the recognition credentials and experience acquired outside Canada? Does your study contain a legal opinion or a feasibility study on the introduction of this kind of agency? If so, could you tell us about the challenges this project raises?

In addition, right across Canada—not just in Quebec—organizations are asking us when the money will be paid to the partners. We're talking about $68 million promised over the next six years to help the partners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Briefly, Mr. Minister. We're up to eight minutes now.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, thank you for the question.

Absolutely we respect Quebec's jurisdiction in this respect. Quebec has been consulted in the lead-up to the announcement on foreign credentials. I also met recently with Lise Theriault, the minister, and was very impressed with what Quebec is doing on foreign credentials on its own. They're doing an outstanding job. I'm actually very excited to see what they're doing working with doctors, which is probably the toughest nut to crack, but they took it on first and they're doing a great job. They deserve full credit for that.

Madam Faille, forgive me, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with respect to the $68 million. If there is a concern between the federal government and Quebec or if there's an issue regarding how the Quebec-Canada accord is calculated, if that's the issue, they are working on it and they're trying to get it settled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I think we'll pick that up on the next round, because I have some members looking at me here and I've gone over quite a great deal.

Sorry, Bill.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks for coming back so soon, Minister. It's good to have you back.

Minister, on page 4 of your statement this afternoon, you talked about settlement funding and additional settlement funding to Ontario and to other provinces. Is the Ontario money in addition to what was part of the Ontario agreement or is that part of the funding that was negotiated as part of the new Ontario agreement?