Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2006

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The funding that applies to Ontario is the same level that was under the previous government--the $920 million over five years. The other funding is, as some people call it, the nationalization of the Canada-Ontario deal and it includes, of course, a significant transfer to British Columbia and other provinces. The actual details of that will be worked out with the provinces. They all have different relations with the federal government, depending on what point in the process they got involved in providing immigration services.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Do you have a specific breakdown of that $42 million and how it's spent with the other provinces, Minister?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Not at this point. We'll get that for you.

One of the important things that will come out of that additional funding is more funding for enhanced language training, which is one of the most important new initiatives because it allows people who, in many cases, have credentials, and even credentials that are recognized, to also get the language skills that will allow them to get the job and the pay cheque to go along with it.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So the intent of the money that you mentioned on page 4 is to extend the Ontario standard now to every other province across the country?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The deputy minister has something to offer.

[Janice Charette, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

In terms of what's in the main estimates that you're considering today, those would be initiatives through the Treasury Board process, through all the government management board processes by the end of October. So that would have been the funding in Budget 2005, in terms of increased integration funding and settlement funding, plus the Canada-Ontario agreement.

In terms of the announcement on nationalization that the minister referred to in his statement and so on, you will see that subsequently in the supplementary estimates.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Was that the $307 million that was announced in the budget this year?

[Janice Charette]

That's for the Canada-Ontario agreement and to nationalize that to other jurisdictions outside government.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Okay. So it's the $307 million that's going to be used for the standardization of that across the country. That's very important. Certainly, I know the minister is aware that British Columbia has been feeling a little left out in terms of the settlement funding area.

I have a specific question about British Columbia. The minister will know that about a year and a half ago the department went to a request for proposal system of funding for agencies that do the settlement and immigration and refugee work in British Columbia. At the time, organizations were requested to put in a proposal for a one-year contract, and that was what was awarded. Since then, that has been extended to 18 months, and then there was a year extension, and now another year extension. So that has built funding over a three-and-a-half-year period, ultimately, based on something that happened three years ago and based on a one-year proposal from these organizations. So almost every group that's doing that work is feeling the pinch right now, and in fact laying off workers and finding it very difficult to carry on the work they were contracted to do.

Is there anything that will immediately offer some relief to them and recognize the difficulty they're in right at this very moment?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

My understanding is that this was something the B.C. government did; they put in place this RFP. With respect to somehow making this easier in the short run, it's a difficult situation, and I'm not exactly certain how to answer that.

There are a number of groups, not just in this department, that are in the same boat because of the way things have worked out with respect to the election and with respect to funds flowing before we can have approval of the budget and the estimates. So this is a problem.

I think with respect to some of the bigger organizations, they're able to work it out because they have some credibility and some credit, so they are able to do these things.

There was a letter, if I recall correctly, that went out from the department to provinces and settlement agencies to give them some guidance on this, but I'd have to check to see the contents of the letter again.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Well, Minister, the status quo is very problematic for these agencies, especially in British Columbia, which has seen the largest number of new immigrants and refugees in a decade.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

There will be more money.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

It's an urgent process now. They're laying off staff because they can't afford to operate with rising costs, with rising numbers of people to serve. So it is a very urgent problem in many agencies in British Columbia.

I want to go to one other question.

Minister, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask why the commitment to the Refugee Appeal Division isn't in these estimates. Again, this is something that every immigrant and refugee-serving agency in the country and some international agencies have called for, and it's in the law. Yet successive ministers, including you, have refused to abide by the law and implement the RAD. It appears that this is happening yet again, and I just wonder if you can explain again why.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, fairness is important. I think we have to be fair to people.

The system as it is today does provide a number of avenues of appeal. I know there are concerns that there is not an avenue of appeal with respect to the merits of an individual case. I understand that.

Our concern is that we're reluctant to move forward with this without a discussion about other changes so that we don't end up with the situation where we have people tied up in the system even longer than they're tied up today. As you know, sometimes people are in there for many, many years using the generous avenues of appeal that we currently have, and also, frankly, they are able to do so at little cost to themselves because they use legal aid services in individual provinces. The result is that some people are here for 10, 15 years--I remember one case of 17 years--tying up the system.

So this is the other side of it. I'd love to find a way to address both of these issues and make everyone happy and ensure fundamental justice for every case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, thank you, Minister.

I will turn to Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I was listening to your comments, and I know the last time you appeared before this committee there was a remark made that immigration is not one of the five priorities, that it might somehow be ignored by this government, and that the issue of refugees and family reunification was not on the radar screen.

My question is, what has been the record of the Conservative government on these issues? Where do you plan to take us in regard to those issues?

I notice you also indicated that settlement funding was frozen in 1996, and even though there was a focus on numbers, without settlement funds that might be somewhat problematic. In this particular budget you referred to the fact that there was $306 million or thereabouts over two years.

How do you see the correlation between what you intend to do and the need for settlement funds, the impact of that?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, there are a number of questions in there. You touched on family reunification. This is obviously very important. Family reunification is the number one priority of the government when it comes to processing in the family class. Spouses and children receive priority processing. There is additional funding in the main estimates this year to ensure that we continue to process family class as quickly as we can.

I would also point out that the settlement funding will help everyone. I would argue that it especially helps people in the family class who don't necessarily have language skills that we require under the skilled worker program. So they come in, and they're able to get language training; they're able to get help learning how to find a job--that sort of thing. So this is very important.

As I've pointed out, the outcomes for newcomers have fallen dramatically in the last 25 years, and that's not acceptable. We have to find a way to ensure that when people come here with these big dreams they have about the country, we really help them. This big increase in settlement funding is a first step. It's not by any means the total answer, but it is a very important start.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Certainly, there would be some correlation between the settlement funding and the success of the numbers we get in. It's important for us, and of course for the department, to ensure the people who do come in succeed in what we'd like them to do.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The settlement agencies are absolutely heroic in providing services to people. They use volunteers to a great degree, people who really want to help newcomers. When we provide a dollar to a settlement agency, those volunteers really leverage that for us and make sure we're providing help that we just couldn't otherwise provide. So this is money that is extraordinarily well spent. I'm thrilled we're able to make that one of our first big initiatives as a new government. I have no doubt that will be reflected in better outcomes for people in years down the road.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I notice there are also some issues on the social side of immigration. The minister announced recently some measures taken with respect to victims of human trafficking. That's something that's been in the works for a long time.

In the time that you've been minister, what steps have been taken by the department with respect to that specific issue?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

We made some commitments about this as an opposition party, so when we finally got to government we were able to do something about it. We received a pretty negative report from the Future Group respecting our performance as a country.

We've been one of the countries that has signed...we were a lead negotiator in the protocol on human trafficking in 2000, but we really didn't take steps to deal with the issue. The steps we took were in many respects modest, but so important to the victims of human trafficking. We will issue a temporary residency permit of 120 days for someone who the RCMP and CBSA determine to be a victim of human trafficking. They will immediately get health benefits and counselling. And if they are in a position to do it, obviously we'd love to have their help to identify who the traffickers are so other people aren't victimized.

It's a big problem. The estimate is that there are between 600 and 800 people a year who are victims of human trafficking in Canada, and I think another 1,500 to 2,500 who pass through Canada on the way to the United States. So this is an important first step. We have to go further, but it's a good step.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

When we talked about the record of the Conservative government, numbers weren't the only factor. But how have we done in numbers? How are we doing? And what's your perspective down the road?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Previous Conservative governments brought a lot of people into this country--well over 300,000 people under previous Conservative governments. Under this one, we're intending to do what we can to keep levels at the high end of the range that the previous government announced. Those numbers, by the way, will be the highest they've been since, really, the late eighties and early nineties, when I think the numbers last peaked. So these numbers will be at record levels compared to the last 15 years or so.

We think that's important. We think it's important for labour markets. We think it's important, because we have some demographic challenges of various kinds, and we also just think it's the right thing to do. I'm pleased to be in a position to make that kind of announcement.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

If you have settlement funding, the other side of the issue is working and cooperating with the provinces and third-party agencies to make sure the money is used as effectively as possible.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

That's right. I've talked to a number of provincial ministers in the last little while, and premiers too. I had some good discussions with Premier Campbell about this, and the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration for Ontario, Mike Colle, and many others as well. We're looking at ways to help provinces that already have great numbers of immigrants, but we're also looking at ways to help, for instance, Atlantic Canada to find a way to regionalize immigration so we can make sure they continue to go up in population instead of down. We're looking at some ideas to help them. This funding will help them, absolutely.