Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2006

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Is it also because there are higher numbers of applications coming from those particular areas, as opposed to the ones you mentioned that only have three to five months wait time?

[Janet Dench]

Probably that is the case. If you look at the visa posts where you have the largest numbers of refugees coming from that region, they tend to be slower. They also tend to be places that are in a part of the world where things are more difficult, of course, because refugees don't come from countries with peaceful situations.

We would expect a country like Canada, with its traditions and resources, not to say, well, you're a refugee from this country, and this is a difficult situation so you'll have to wait two years. Surely we can do better than that.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Right.

Do I still have a little time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have one minute left.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

When it comes to these appointments, clearly, we want the best people to do the job. I'm involved a bit with the appointments process--reviewing certain applications and making recommendations to the Prime Minister. One of the things we're trying to do is remove the process from being strictly political appointments. We're trying our best to reach out to the rest of Canadians, people who may be positive appointments who have never had the opportunity to sit on these boards, and recruit the best possible people for these jobs.

I know there is a case to be made that experience can help in the process--people who have been around to advise those who are new--but if you look at the case of what's happened in the recent election, we have a brand-new front bench of cabinet ministers, brand-new MPs, and we are doing a pretty good job, given the fact we've only been here for nine months. Despite what my honourable colleague thinks, renewal is not a bad thing.

What I am trying to say to you is that we don't want to let this delay carry on any longer. We hope to have these filled within the next few weeks to months, for sure by the end of the year. If we can find good people for the job, as long as they're going to do a stellar job in the best interests of refugees and future immigrants, isn't that necessarily what we should be aspiring to, in your opinion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. A brief response, please. Then I'll go to Madame Faille.

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

The new appointments also imply more time, because the people have to be trained and employed, and they are going to be coached at the IRB refugee hearings, and so on.

What we are trying to say is a balanced approach, in terms of reappointment with experience and new appointments, is the best way to go. If you remove the political implications—you know what I mean—that will be the best way. But we have to do it faster, because we are in a crisis now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen.

On reading your submission, I found it disappointing to see that with a bit of goodwill, some of the problems identified could be resolved fairly quickly.You pointed to the problem associated with the appointment of board members and the question of lost time. This problem significantly impacts the lives of refugees who come to Canada as well as humanitarian considerations.

It's unfortunate that political considerations are invoked and all kinds of scare tactics used and that refugees are not welcomed with more open arms. As long as politics come into play, humanitarian considerations will take a back seat and these problems will persist.

Agencies like yours could be involved in the decisions that governments and MPs are called upon to make, because we're not always totally aware of what's happening in the trenches. That's why we must look to partners such as yourself to suggest ways of expediting the process in order to help refugees or those seeking refugee status.

You've identified a problem that I feel is fairly significant, namely the shortage of francophone board members. The government has indicated that it wants to accept more francophone immigrants. What are the consequences of not having enough francophone board members in Canada? Could you run down the list of consequences for me, in so far as Quebec and the other provinces are concerned?

[Janet Dench]

The shortage of francophone members is a problem outside Quebec because obviously, there are many of them in Montreal.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

There are enough of them in Quebec?

[Janet Dench]

Yes, there are enough in Quebec. When an application for refugee status is filed elsewhere in Canada. applicants who speak French are entitled under the federal Official Languages Act to have a hearing in their first official language.

The shortage of francophone members means longer wait times for hearings. In certain cases, videoconferencing is the approach used. This is far from an ideal method for someone who is testifying about the difficult times in his life.

Occasionally, interpretation services are used. It's truly unacceptable in a bilingual country like Canada that a hearing is conducted in English and the applicant must rely on interpretation services.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Are there other problems that could be attributed to the shortage of francophone board members? Interpretation was mentioned, but language isn't the only issue. What about perception?

You seem to agree with me, Mr. Rico-Martinez.

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

This is not only for French-speaking people. We have an issue of a cultural understanding or cultural sensitivity. When you speak more than one language, when you have a second language, you also understand the body—the way people present themselves and the cultural interpretation of things—and you tend not to be so rigid in the way you analyze a case, if you know what I mean. That way, when we have people who speak two languages decide a case, I think it implies the decision is going to be at least with respect and understanding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. In the interests of getting everyone in who wishes to have a question—we only have about 15 minutes left now, and I have four people who wish to have a question—if you can tighten it up a little bit, I would appreciate it. Or we can go overtime, maybe for five minutes or so.

Nina, please.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your time and your presentations.

In the Canadian Council for Refugees' view, are there any other important issues this committee should be studying involving refugees—if there are, could you please tell us—that are definitely significant?

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

Yes. One that is very close to my heart is that of the non-status people. We don't even know the numbers we have of people without status in Canada. There are people working here who are not committing crimes and don't have security problems or whatever. I think we have to focus on the possibility of materializing a program to regularize their life in Canada, because there are a lot of children involved, and there is poverty. We are basically forcing people into poverty for lack of immigration status.

If you can do something about the non-status people in Canada taking a more comprehensive approach—without prejudice, without seeing them as jumping the queue, without seeing them as abusing the system, but seeing this as a survival move of different people that is created by poverty, lack of democracy, or whatever—that would be wonderful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Ms. Simpson.

[Debra Simpson]

You're talking about other problems in addition to the full plate we have given you. I would like to suggest it would be good to look at why security background checks take so long. Another one would be what the impact is of the social assistance bar on family reunification.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

[Janet Dench]

I would like to underline the whole issue of public opinion and public perceptions. The refugee name is so often dragged in in inappropriate contexts. The government and parliamentarians can play an important role in making sure that when we talk about refugees we understand what we're talking about and don't associate refugees with abusers, with terrorists, with all of the other kinds of associations that are often out there. This is something we deal with on a daily basis that is really devastating for refugees in their personal lives, but also in terms of how policy is developed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Good. Thank you.

Okay, Nina?

Bill, please.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That tightened it up a good bit. That was three minutes there.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Chair, I wonder if the CCR has responded to the news story this morning about Steve Ellis, an IRB member in Toronto who has been filmed trying to trade sex for a positive IRB decision. I understand he's now been suspended, but given the details that have emerged about this particular case—and they're very graphic and very direct—suspension seems like an inadequate response.

Maybe the parliamentary secretary can fill us in more on the government's response to this particular case today later on. It seems like an outright, obvious case where someone should be fired summarily. I'm wondering whether the CCR has had a chance to look at this and has had any response to it yet.