Evidence of meeting #19 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
My second question has to do with the extension of mandates for sitting commissioners whose term has ended. The system you've just described sets out nine competency criteria.
Have you considered reassessing individuals based on their competency once their term has ended, so as to be able to extend their terms and ensure some continuity within the commission?
9:50 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
The nine competencies form a basis for the recruitment process and were established by the commissioners themselves with the support from a human resources firm. We wanted to determine whether or not the individuals that had been recruited had the required skills. Commissioners took part in this exercise, which was approved by management.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
How do you explain the fact that some commissioners were not reappointed despite the fact that they had received excellent evaluations during their terms?
9:50 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Allow me to finish...
9:50 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
All commissioners had to be assessed as to these nine competencies over a six-month period. When I recommend to the minister that someone be reappointed, I do so based on these nine criteria.
The reasons for which individuals do not get reappointed is not within the chairperson's purview. Once a recommendation is made, the minister decides whether or not to reappoint a commissioner. If a person is reappointed, it is done through an order in council.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Take for instance a commissioner who had gotten an excellent evaluation and good marks with respect to the nine competencies. Despite all of that, the minister may not want to — and I do mean want — to reappoint an individual.
9:50 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
You are right, but that has only been the case for the last fifteen years, ever since we have orders in council appointments.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
To me, a more fundamental issue is that of having one commissioner instead of two and one level of appeal. When I was a commissioner on the board, towards the end, they were two commissioners hearing refugee claims. The system was changed for reasons we are all aware of. I will not get in to the details of that now, which we all know.
We now have legislation calling for a level of appeal, and the mechanism which was supposed to be established meant that we went from having two commissioners to only one. Not only is this not a step forward, but it is actually a step back.
Allow me to digress. When the board was created it was decided that two commissioners would be appointed in order to create a balance and avoid cases such as Mr....
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That's five and a half minutes. But you could clue up your question, Madam Folco, and we'll go to Mr. Fleury for an answer, even though we're almost at six minutes.
Go ahead. Clue up your question, please.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Would you be in favour of returning to the former system involving two commissioners who would hear cases and also two levels of consideration? The first level would consist of a study on paper to determine whether a case is complicated. If so, you would move to the second stage by going before a commissioner. What do you think of that?
9:55 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
I think that is a political matter. It is up to the government to decide that. As Chair person, it is not up to me to express an opinion, unless the government asked me to. It is incumbent on government to decide whether or not there should be one level of appeal or two commissioners.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That's almost seven minutes. The chair will have to be more vigilant.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I look forward to similar treatment, Mr. Chair.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Mr. Fleury, thanks for being here today.
You said the recent decision to place public ads looking for potential board members was a good idea. You've been on the board for many years. Have you previously recommended to the government or the minister that they ought to do this?
9:55 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
No. It was the government that felt it might be the way to go. And it turned out to be the way to go.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
Right, as opposed to what happened previously, which was that the potential appointments came from...where? If it wasn't publicly communicated that these were available, where were they coming from?
9:55 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
There was a website on my site. We have a secretariat, and people apply through the secretariat. They used to apply through ministers or members of Parliament, and they would be sent to us to apply. The interest would be from all over. But all requests for interest come through the secretariat, which reports to me.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
We've just heard--and it's something I didn't realize--that this notion of publicly advertising to find potential candidates, so not pre-screening them or making the opportunity well known to some but not generally well known, was actually done in the past, in 1992-93, which of course is an interesting date. The government previous to the previous government was in charge at that time.
9:55 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
I can just confirm the date.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Barry Devolin Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON
I think it's fair to say there's a sense out there that the road to getting an appointment on your board for the past ten years or so has been largely a partisan process, and it wasn't equally open to all Canadians. In fact, there was a preferred route.
Can you explain the advisory panel that was in place prior to 2004? Who was on that? How did that work? What criteria were used to bring those names forward?
9:55 a.m.
Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
I'm at a bit of a disadvantage, because I worked under that regime for...well, I came in 2002, so I worked about a year under the previous format.
The advisory committee to the minister did the interviews through some criteria, and there was a test. That came to a final group chaired by Mr. Poulin, who was appointed by the government. There were people appointed by the government in the advisory group. I was the chair, and I was only one vote.