Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2006

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

As I recall, in the report we outlined what the fees were that were collected, and we affirmed that we felt we were in accordance with Treasury Board guidelines.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Where there is a change in the duration of the application process, certain provisions of the act kick in. Have there been situations where the department hasn't met its predicted timelines when folks have paid user fees for certain services?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Not that I'm aware of, but maybe I'll ask the deputy minister to weigh in on this.

[Richard Fadden, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Our view is that we are in absolute full compliance with the act in respect of reporting.

The other components of the act that require us to either seek consultations or additional authorities do not apply. That's because we do not have specific timelines against each of the individual categories, we have broad ranges.

Our view would be that this portion of the act does not apply. And for what it may be worth, we've consulted with the Treasury Board and with the Department of Justice, and they share that view.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So your interpretation of the duration provisions of the User Fees Act is that because you don't publish a hard and fast deadline and you just give ranges, it wouldn't apply to the department's user fees.

[Richard Fadden]

That's essentially correct, Mr. Chairman.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Also, under the Financial Administration Act, I wonder, Minister, if you believe the department is in compliance with all the reporting and arrangements under that act.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, to the best of my knowledge, yes, absolutely.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

And have there been unit-per-unit costings provided by CIC for the most recent years, 2005-06, under the provisions of that act?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I'm going to have to defer to my colleagues on that.

[Wayne Ganim, Chief Financial Officer, Director General Finance Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Chairman, the fees that are in place currently were not established under the User Fees Act. They were actually established before the act. So the current policy on the User Fees Act does not apply to the current fees. If we were to implement any new fees, they would go under the User Fees Act.

However, as the minister has pointed out, we are reporting against the user fees in our departmental performance reports, as required by Treasury Board.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Minister, recently there was some media coverage about individuals who apply to sponsor a spouse for permanent residence within Canada. They have to pay a $75 fee for their sponsorship application. It appears that the cost of processing that application at the case processing centre in Mississauga is only $36.66 per unit. Can you comment on that discrepancy?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Sure. What that cost doesn't take into account is the fact that we also have to do medical and criminal security checks. Our position is that the $75 only covers a portion of the overall cost of processing. So it's $36 plus the other checks we have to do.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I want to change topics, Minister, and ask about the stateless Vietnamese in the Philippines. You know the committee has taken a strong position on that. It has called on you to institute measures, either under the country of asylum class or under special humanitarian and compassionate grounds, to deal with the 140 people who are still in the Philippines without a durable solution to their circumstances.

I'm wondering if you have been able to take any action on that situation.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I know you have an interest in this. Canada has already weighed in to try to provide some help for people in this situation. We feel we have done our share. We'd like to see the rest of the world jump in and pull their weight on this as well. I know it's a troubling situation.

We feel we're doing our job in terms of accepting refugees. In fact, we're going above and beyond, which is why we've been singled out by the UNHCR time and again for showing leadership on refugee issues. We would always like to be more generous, but we can't do everything.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Minister, we've only taken 27 of the original 2,000 people who missed out on the UN program. It seems to me that there is some room there. Other countries have done significantly more and have certainly treated them as refugees. I hope you'll reconsider that position.

I'm also concerned that the numbers seem to indicate a reduction in the target for refugees in Canada. It's my understanding that the target is now in the range of 25,900 to 30,800, whereas in 2005 the actual number of refugees who came to Canada was 35,700. Can you explain why there is the reduction? It seems to me that there are still 8.5 million refugees around the world who need our assistance.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Since 2001 we've seen a drop around the world in people seeking refugee status. More and more people are returning to the countries they were originally displaced from. This is hardly a new trend. Mr. Guterres was here the other day, the head of the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, and he made the same point. He pointed out that fewer people are seeking asylum than before. But we're trying to do a better job of reaching out to refugees, which is why we raised the range for privately sponsored refugees. We're hoping to deal with the issue of the backlog and some of the disagreements we've had with some of the agreement holders to try to bring people in through the private sponsorship of refugees program. It's the best possible way to bring people into the country and get them settled. So we are making a good-faith effort to try to work with them to bring some more people in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Siksay. I know you'll have more questions.

To complete our seven-minute round, Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Minister, to this committee.

You referred to the increase in the numbers of immigrants in planning for 2007. Over the years there have been alleged promises by the previous government to attempt to hit 1% of the population as an immigration target. That has never been met over the years, but there have been modest increases. Yet at the same time I note in your remarks that settlement funding since the early 1990s, 1994, has not been provided, while the numbers have gone up. I'm encouraged to see in your 2007 plan that the economic class has been increased by 15,000 compared to 2006, and the family class also has its targets raised to 5,000 members, including the parents and grandparents by 1,000. Having said that, there has also been a budgetary item of $307 million over two years, to be used for settlement and immigration.

What are your hopes and aspirations regarding the settlement funding and the immigration funding? And what correlation do you see between that and numbers or increasing numbers? Have any of these funds started to flow? How is that coming along?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for the question.

As I said in my remarks, this is the highest planning range in 15 years. We think we need to have more immigrants coming to Canada. They've been critical to our success as a nation in the past, and we see them as being critical to our future success. We have labour market needs to meet, but beyond that, they also enrich our country immeasurably. But it's more than just raising the numbers. We also have to provide the support in terms of settlement funding, which is why, in the budget, we announced $307 million in new funding. By the way, that comes after many years of stagnant funding, which meant real cuts for settlement agencies that were providing literacy training and language training and career training for all kinds of newcomers. They were lined up trying to get the services they need to succeed. It's not just about bringing more people in, although that's critical. It's just as importantly about ensuring they have the support so they can be as successful as the previous generation of newcomers.

In 1980 the average standard of living for newcomers one year after arriving here was 25% higher than the Canadian average, and in 2003 it was 32% lower than the Canadian average. That's not acceptable. So we have to increase this funding, which we've done, and the money is flowing now. We've paid out $60 million already to settlement agencies in Ontario, and that's on our way to dramatically increasing the overall settlement funding in Ontario, an increase of about 70%. The money is flowing, and we think it's going to make a big difference in helping newcomers to be the success they should be.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

In addition, Mr. Telegdi mentioned there was an issue about skilled workers and those wanting to come in, helping in the construction trade particularly. And there are programs. I noticed that there's also been an increase in numbers in the provincial nominee program in the various provinces. As I understand it, there are agreements with the provinces across the country, including Ontario, and a specific program there for Ontario. Do you plan any initiatives in that regard?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The numbers for provincial nominee programs are going up. We think this is a good way to help provinces meet labour market needs, or in some cases demographic needs, because some provinces are losing in population and want to bring people in.

In Ontario we haven't really reached the point yet where we've actually struck a deal on PNP, but Ontario is the biggest recipient of newcomers. It may not be quite as critical in Ontario, but we think it's a good program

The other issue is something I've alluded to. I think there's a need for us to find a way to ensure there's a pathway for temporary workers who aren't necessarily people with university degrees and who can't meet the criteria of the point system today. We need to find a way for them to become permanent residents.

I think if we can do that, we can go some distance in dealing with Mr. Telegdi's concern, which is that under the point system, as it is today, the very people we need the most to help us achieve our labour market goals are simply shut out. We have to reverse that. We think one way to do it is to take temporary workers, who are already proving they're contributing, and make them permanent residents.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I noted that in the temporary worker class, we have 100,000 in numbers. We're talking about a fairly significant class of people. In addition to that, you mentioned that foreign students who work off campus are already acclimatizing to our country and could be part of that particular process. It's certainly going in the right direction to address the economic needs of our country. Are there any other initiatives in that direction?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Yes. This is all part of achieving better outcomes for newcomers. You're matching them up right away with the jobs they're trained for, and at the same time, of course, you're improving outcomes for the country, because we need workers.

On top of the $307 million, which is critical, we've also taken steps on foreign credential recognition. Minister Finley is leading consultations on that right now with the provinces and professional bodies.

Our hope is that we will be able to work with all those bodies to provide a way for newcomers, when they first come here, to find a pathway to the different jurisdictions they'll be working in and to find out what credential upgrading they may need, if any. We also need to work with the professional bodies to help newcomers meet the Canadian standards they need to meet, if the credentials they have currently aren't up to par. But it's a situation where we need people to work in a good faith way instead of gatekeeping.

Minister Finley is on that right now, and we're going to play a supporting role to try to make it happen. It's a very important issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

There is still half a minute, if you want to continue.