Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was estimates.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
We did. We said right away that there's no way of knowing what the actual number is.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
So we just let it ride in order to make sure that we start tinkering with dual citizenship?
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Aren't you catering to the core support of the Reform Party by tinkering with dual citizenship, Minister? I do remember that you were a Reformer before you sort of changed your colours and became a Conservative.
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
We're not tinkering with dual citizenship. As I said before, what we're concerned about are people who are absent from the country many years in a row, who aren't paying taxes, but who may come back to Canada and use our health care and our senior--
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Let's get to the point. Let's not mislead. With how many countries do we have treaties for taxation?
Liberal
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
So if the person in one of those dozens of countries is a Canadian abroad, then we have a treaty where he pays taxes there, and it also applies to Canada. Correct?
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
In some cases we would have taxation paid here. But the problem is that if we're in a situation where somebody--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Order, please. I want to hear the minister's reply on the last question, please.
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
If we're in a situation where somebody is absent, isn't paying taxes, but is going to be using our social programs down the road, I think Canadians would feel that is unfair. We think that's correct to have that concern, which is why we're studying it.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Minister, when you are in a country that has treaty arrangements for taxation and the person abroad is paying taxes--like in the United States, where we have a treaty for taxation--doesn't some of that money flow back to our social services, which certainly is not a federal jurisdiction, but a provincial one?
Conservative
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
In the case of receiving benefits like old age security, pretty clearly, that's not a provincial program.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Minister, in order to receive old age security you have to be in Canada, and you have to be in Canada forx number of years.
So have your facts straight, and if you don't have your facts straight, please refer to your bureaucrats. And if you don't know about old age security, do not start speaking about other departments. In order to receive old age security, you must be in Canada for so many years. If there are treaties with other countries on old age security, then he's gone abroad.
So let's not throw trial balloons out there when we absolutely don't know what we're talking about.
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
People can come to Canada and collect old age security. They can be here for a period of time--
Conservative
Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
--but they may have been out of the country for many years.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
When you sponsor somebody, you are responsible for that person for ten years. After the ten years, can that person apply for old age security?