Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2006

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First of all, it's one thing to promise settlement funds; it's another thing to deliver them. We delivered.

On the issue of the levels, the planning range that we're setting is the highest in 15 years. The way it works, as I understand it--and my officials can correct me if I'm wrong, as I might be--is we try to process individual categories to meet the range. Resources are shifted around to ensure that we meet these planning ranges, but what we can't determine is how quickly people use the visas once they're granted, because that's up to them. I think they have six months on average to use a visa, if I recall correctly. Last year, people used them more quickly than usual--especially, I think, in the skilled worker class. If I recall correctly, I think they used them about 30 days faster than usual, which resulted in more people coming through in the year than had been in the planning range. That's what occurred that year.

We're not counting on that; we're going by what occurs historically. That's why we've set the numbers as we've set them.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Do I still have time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have three minutes.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I have a follow-up question for you, Minister.

You receive information when you travel throughout the country to consult with groups and with provincial representatives.

How do you use these discussions to determine immigration levels, in relation to qualified workers?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

When we had a federal-provincial-territorial meeting with the provinces at the end of June, we discussed this issue. We invited them to begin discussions with us about long-term targets, but we also sought their input over the summer in terms of the current numbers we brought forward. They had been involved in that process, and we actually had a formal discussion with them about those numbers. We think that's important for two reasons.

First of all, part of this is about meeting labour market needs and ensuring that families are reunited. Part of it is also keeping in mind that the provinces provide substantial services to newcomers through the schools and through all kinds of other ways, and it's important that they be able to provide the resources necessary to support them.

We don't want to see what occurred in the past, which was more and more people coming, but their outcomes getting worse and worse. That has been the story of the last number of years, and we've got to turn it around. It's our obligation to find a way to improve outcomes so that when people come here, they're really realizing the great Canadian dream.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I disagree with you on that. I don't think that the outcomes were as bad as you say. However, I would like to know how...

I have no more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You're six minutes now in a five-minute round, but you've been patient. If it's a very brief question, I'll allow a brief answer.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you very much for your generosity.

Here is my question to you, Minister.

You say that you want to help qualified workers, that you would like temporary workers to become Canadian citizens. At the same time, you denied the construction workers in Ontario as well as their employers any possibility of continuing to work together. On the one hand, you seem to be saying that you intend to do something, but then, when the need is pressing, or even extreme, you flatly refuse to do anything.

How do you explain that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

A brief response, Mr. Solberg.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

We're taking the same position as the previous government in terms of not recognizing undocumented workers and regularizing them. What we're doing that's different is we're offering a pathway for temporary workers to become permanent residents. That's something I'm committed to. I know the country needs it. And I think the public likes the idea of people who don't have a degree being able to come to this country and contribute the way that our grandparents, parents, and great-grandparents have done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Komarnicki. You have a few questions.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I will split my time with Ms. Grewal. I just have a brief remark, and then for the record we'll shift to Ms. Grewal.

I listened to Madame Folco, and I've read the annual report. The annual report indicates that in 2005, and I believe those are some of the figures she was referring to, there was a spike from the planned amount of immigrants for a number of reasons. The minister alluded to some. One was, as I read it, on average, the immigrants used their visas faster in 2005 than in 2004, with the standard time between the visa issuance and the immigrant arrival in Canada declining by close to 30 days in 2005. This resulted in almost an extra month of admissions in 2005. Also in 2005, the number of people with immigrant visas who chose not to use them dropped substantially compared with 2004, so there was a bit of an aberration there.

Notwithstanding that fact, as I see it, the upper limits of the ministry in this year is in excess of even what happened with the spike in 2005. Could you just clarify that, perhaps, and then I will defer to Ms. Grewal.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I just point out that as I look back over the history of planning ranges, the way it's worked over the last number of years, as I recall--I don't have the document in front of me--is generally you would see increments rise in the planning range of, at the high end, say 10,000. Sometimes for three years in a row the planning range was frozen under the previous government, so we are taking the planning range to the highest point it has been in 15 years. I think that reflects two things: our commitment to making sure that our labour market needs are filled and that we provide a home to newcomers from around the world who have done a tremendous amount to strengthen this country in the past, and we think will as part of the future, but also, of course, we think this is key to making Canada more competitive in a global economy.

We're talking about people who are working around the world right now, and those connections help us with trade and in a number of other ways. We want to encourage that, and it's the message we're trying to send along with the $307 million. We want to make sure that those people when they come have the ability to really land on their feet and get the training they need so they can go out there and really be as successful as their predecessors were and like many of our ancestors.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Two and a half minutes, Ms. Gewal, and then, Mr. Wilson, it's your turn.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Komarnicki.

Mr. Minister, regarding dual citizenship, I have a quote by the former minister of citizenship, Judy Sgro.

'I've always questioned dual citizenship, and I'm the former minister,' said Ontario Liberal MP Judy Sgro, a Liberal immigration minister between 2003 and 2005. 'We've paid all that money to evacuate all those people and now 7,000 of them have gone back,' Sgro said. She added the benefits that come with Canadian citizenship for those living abroad--including pension benefits and assistance from the federal government in times of emergency--are 'ripe for exploitation.'

Mr. Minister, what would you comment on that?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I think she's reflecting what she's heard from her constituents. That's what I'm saying as well: I think people are concerned about this issue, and I think we have to be responsive and accountable. We will take these concerns to heart and consider them, and decide whether or not we want to make changes based on what the real facts are around this issue. Yes, we are concerned about it. We think that everyone should meet their responsibilities as citizens, including dual citizens, and that's where we're focused.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Are there any additional questions? You do have a minute left, Madam Grewal. If not, I will just move to.... I think the clerk has taken my sheet, but I think it's Mr. Wilson.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, welcome, Mr. Minister.

I have a number of questions to ask in my short period of time, so if you could keep your answers as brief as possible I would truly appreciate it.

The first issue I want to delve into is the skilled worker shortage in British Columbia and in western Canada. The people in western Canada are coming to discover that Conservative times are indeed tough times--if it's not the $25 billion that was wiped out on income trusts, or the $7 million plus that was wiped out to our tourism industry through the cancellation of the GST rebate.

Now we are, as you stated in your preamble, 3,500 workers short in Whistler, British Columbia, which is just a small community in western Canada, but an important one. What efforts is your department making with respect to extending the temporary worker visas from one year to two years? A lot of hotels and restaurants bring these people in, train them for a month, then eleven months later they have to ship out. What's your ministry doing with respect to that?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, this is not a new problem. There have been shortages for some time, and the previous government didn't address them, but we are taking steps. I mentioned in my remarks that we'll be making some announcements soon with respect to this to make the program easier to use, more efficient, and less expensive. We'll be saying more about that soon.

We've already taken steps with the temporary foreign worker units that were established in Vancouver and in Calgary. I received a letter the other day from a company thanking us for how much simpler it's made the process of bringing in skilled workers. We've taken some steps, but we need to go beyond that.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I take it then the program isn't going to be extended from one year to two years?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I would ask you to bide your time; we'll have something to say on it soon.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I'll move on to the second question then.

Yes, we do have a major shortage of skilled workers in Canada. As you know, we have 800,000 people on the waiting list to come into Canada, 500,000 of whom are in the skilled worker category. It takes them five years to get in.

Last year the Liberal government let in a record number of new Canadians, 262,000. I'm happy to see that as of the discussions we've had, the scale has been moved up from 240,000 to 265,000. Even at the upper end of that scale, 265,000 is still only 3,000 more people than we let in last year, 262,000. I would ask you to re-evaluate that number in light of the massive shortages we have in Canada. In light of the fact our baby boomers are nearing retirement, we're going to have fewer people paying into the system and more people on the retirement side. I would ask you to re-evaluate that number upward to closer to 350,000 people. How is increasing the number of immigrants or new Canadians by 3,000 going to deal with it? That won't even deal with the 3,500 skilled worker shortage we have in Whistler, British Columbia.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Where did you get the number 350,000 from? What evidence do you use to determine that 350,000 is the right number?

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I can just take a look at British Columbia: in Whistler alone we're short 3,500 workers. If you extrapolate the shortages there with the shortages.... I'm not even talking about Alberta and the massive shortages there. Restaurants and businesses have had to close because they can't find enough workers to staff their operations. There's a massive shortage that 3,000 new Canadians across Canada is not going to deal with.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

So you've determined we need 100,000 more.