Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 26th, 2007

[Rod Donaldson, Former Toronto Police Officer, As an Individual]

First of all, I'd like to say I'm amazed. I'm really new to this, and I'm amazed, sitting here and hearing these stories. As human beings, if we forget our political ethnicities and just look at this as humans—My feeling is that I want to know how I can help these people.

Anyway, I wrote a letter to Prime Minister Harper. Everybody here has a copy of it. I was essentially just going to read it again.

I was one of these people also born out of wedlock in 1959. What had happened was that my father—and this is the dirt coming out—was already married to another woman. He was a police officer in the OPP, stationed out of Barrie, Ontario. My mom was a nurse in Orillia. They happened to meet; things happened, even as they do in modern times. Unfortunately, in those days we didn't have birth control, and my mother became pregnant with me.

My mom came from a very well-off family in the Port Severn area. To avoid embarrassment, through a nurse friend down in the Windsor area they ended somehow up in Detroit, Michigan, at Sinai Hospital, where I was born.

Through my formative years I'd always been told I was born at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto.

On a trip to the United States on vacation I had met a girl myself. I went down and visited her in Kansas. While I was there, I befriended a police officer and spent a fair amount of time with him. We got the idea that maybe I should join the job down there, so I applied for my birth certificate, because I realized I didn't have one; back then you didn't need anything other than your driver's licence to cross the border.

I got a letter back. My mom was literally making dinner one night, and my mail sat at my place at the kitchen table in the old farmhouse there. I remember reading it and saying, “Gee whiz, mom, they're saying I've never been born. The Canadian government checked five years before my birthdate and five years after, and they have no Rod Donaldson born on that date.”

With that, mom suffered a little bit of embarrassment. A couple of days later she took me into the family dining room, sat me down, and proceeded to tell me the story I've just told you.

I wondered how I came to Canada. What had happened was that she had left me behind. I was left in Warren, Michigan—to the best of my knowledge—with someone who I know was notary public. I think her husband was a lawyer, but when my mom handed me my birth certificate, which happened to be a fictitiously named American birth certificate, she asked me never to contact the people who had notarized that certificate, so that's why I'm thinking those thoughts.

Two years later, my parents were together. Dad had left his previous wife. My little brother had now been born, and I guess they decided they'd better go get Rod Junior. They went across the border, and mom was literally at the front door, knocking on the front door and talking with the husband and wife, and my father snuck in the back door and stole me out of their house and brought me to Canada.

On the trip to Canada, dad, being a police officer and thinking they were going to be looking for this car, dropped my mom off at the border, and she pushed me over. I asked her, “How did I get here?” She said, “Literally, I pushed you across the border in a baby carriage, and dad came around in the car and picked us up later.”

I have fallen through many loopholes, all just because people know who I am. They know I'm Rod's boy, so I must be a Canadian. I think Ms. Eden touched on the fact that we need proof of Canadian citizenship in order to get a driver's licence. In British Columbia that is now how it is. Fortunately for me, where I go, everybody knows me. I just walked in; I basically never filled out anything other than to say that this is me, and I got my licence, so the loopholes are still there.

I'm just asking that these problems be fixed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

We've heard amazing stories today, and I think it's time we got on to our committee members.

I have quite a list of people here who wish to ask questions, and we have a limited time. With your permission, we'll go first of all to Mr. Telegdi to begin the seven-minute rounds. We might have to cut it back a little bit if we're going to get everyone in.

Go ahead, Mr. Telegdi, please.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Janzen, you've been coming to this committee's meetings ever since I've been on it, since 1998, and I'm sure you were coming before then. Every time I hear your story, I have to apologize to our soldiers and their descendants. This is terrible.

I feel awfully bad for each and every one of you. We deported the Acadians, and that's what your testimony brings across, Magali. And we don't recognize the religious marriages of the Mennonites. We have to give a collective head shake.

We had two ministers in less than a year who said we don't need a new act. The last minister said the numbers aren't very big. About a week ago she said 450 or 460. Vic Toews, the President of the Treasury Board, said that in his riding he has 2,000 at least who are border babies and were born out of wedlock.

My question to all of you is this: Do we need a new citizenship act?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It may be beneficial if you direct your question.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's to everybody here as witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Bear in mind we have roughly seven minutes. Maybe if more than one person is going to answer, they would be brief.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

They can just give a quick response.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Janzen, if you wish, you may go first.

[Bill Janzen]

We definitely need changes—serious changes. Whether they come in a whole new act—I've watched this process and I've been involved in this work for 30 years, if I may say so. I know that different governments have tried to bring in whole acts and they get bogged down. With a minority government, they tend not to get through the whole process before the time is up. As long as the key changes that were made, that have been addressed here, which could be done—There could be a set of amendments that would accommodate all of these changes but would not require a whole new act. I think if that were the focus, then there could be full agreement, and the thing could move ahead much more quickly.

I don't want to say there shouldn't be a new act. There are enough things that call for a new act. I expect that if there is a majority government, and the courts have finished their deliberations on these things, then there probably will be one. Realistically speaking, I would rather move ahead with some of these more modest changes and get them through. I think there would be agreement on many of these things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Telegdi, you have some time left.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I wanted everybody to respond quickly—in about 20 seconds.

David.

[David Choi]

The act needs to be amended. The 12th committee meeting report was a unanimous report, which was unprecedented. The amendment will give equal equity to all Canadians, which is critical. Right now it does not. It's gone on for years and years, and I fail to understand why we keep coming back to this process. I think we have reached a point where Canadians are going to lose faith and confidence in this committee process and why we fail to move forward.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Let's move along.

[Christine Eden]

I have a degree in customs law and I've had to deal with amendments to acts that have created more problems than anything. Whoever is going to be working on this and making the changes should be somebody who has a full understanding of exactly what the problems are. No more quick fixes.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chapman.

[Don Chapman]

Absolutely, yes.

[Magali Castro-Gyr]

In my opinion, each nation has a number of burdens to carry. It's time for Canada to shed this particular burden. I really believe that.

[Rod Donaldson]

I totally agree with it as well. I agree with Ms. Eden. I like her point that whoever does become involved in this amendment, as she said, becomes fully aware of the full impact of what they're doing.

[Barbara Porteous]

The big thing is most of us don't pay attention until it hits us. We don't know it exists. I had no idea until I read that letter on July 31 that these things happen, and I feel guilty. The same thing happened to me and I could not talk to anybody. I was humiliated. I didn't want anybody to know.

However, after it was on the air and all that was done, my friends and all in town thought it was fixed because something came out. I have 650 names in four or five days when my family went out and people did not understand that I had no quick fix. It's getting it out there. Then the people will support it. I support it.

[Joe Taylor]

I think Mr. Janzen hit the nail on the head. I think we do need a new citizenship act very badly. But also, there are an awful lot of people whose lives have been in tatters, mine included, for years, and they need something quick. They need a quick fix to put them out of the pain of what they're going through.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay, Sheila.

[Sheila Walshe]

I'm a nurse. It needs radical surgery, but I'll be very good at aftercare, sir.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think we could do a new act fairly quickly, because we've done a lot of the ground work.

I'm finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Telegdi.

Madame Faille, please.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Citizenship is an extremely important issue to us. It is the key to an entire nation's identity. When I became a member of this committee, I found it natural for us to focus on citizenship issues because Quebeckers are constantly striving to preserve their identity. It's probably ingrained in us. Maintaining one's identity implies that one has rights. In Quebec, we had our own Charter of Rights and Freedoms ever before the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into being.

Preserving civil rights is also an important value, as is respect for international and UN agreements, most likely because of our European heritage and our close proximity to and trade with Europe. When I became a member of this committee, my colleagues and I worked diligently to correct shortcomings in the Citizenship Act. The sovereignty movement is working to identify citizenship legislation that could apply to a sovereign nation and to ascertain what rules of cohabitation might apply. As we see it, the citizenship rules applied in Australia and in Trinity and Tobago would resolve the situations that have been brought to our attention today.

When I first started working on this file, I felt it was important to resolve this matter once and for all. Furthermore, when I heard Magali Castro-Gyr's story, I was outraged to see a Quebecker being treated this way.

Rest assured that as long as I'm a member of this committee, I will speak out on your behalf!

I did a little more research into this matter last week, particularly in my own riding. Over the weekend, I discussed the issue with a number of citizens. I came to the realization, like many of you, that people are worried. They are not applying for a citizenship card or requesting proof of citizenship because of the stories that have emerged in recent years. They are afraid that they'll be told that they are not Canadian citizens. I think this is only the tip of the iceberg, because many people will be entitled to collect a pension shortly.

The situation is truly shocking! Last week, the minister informed us that there were approximately 450 similar cases. Everyone heard this report. Earlier, I asked my assistant to check and see when the information was updated on various departmental websites. This coincided with the minister's announcement on January 26 that measures would be taken. Before then, the website contained very little information.

Do you feel that you would not be in this situation had this information been available and properly disseminated? The situation has gotten out of hand, perhaps because the department is unwilling to shoulder its share of responsibility.