Evidence of meeting #41 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was citizen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Could we proceed with “finalizes the report (Study on Detention Centres-Security Certificates)” as motion 1, and motion 2 would be to call testimony from the five guards?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Point of order. The committee is proceeding to finalize the report. We don't need a motion to say we're proceeding to finalize the report--
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That's exactly right. We are proceeding to finalize the report. So I don't know, Mr. Karygiannis, if you would wish....
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Chair, I don't think the finalization of the report and the testimony of the five guards...that one has anything to do with the other. We can finalize our report, but in the meantime I think that overwhelmingly the members of this committee, if I remember correctly the last time around, expressed that due diligence and human rights have to be respected. This is why it's up to this committee, regardless of whether we move on to finalize the report, to ask for the five guards to come and testify in front of the committee, in order to make sure that the allegations that were made to us by the detainees--and they mentioned each one of them individually--that questions be put to them as to what is happening.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Mr. Karygiannis, you're not willing to split that motion. You want to leave it as is.
Mr. Siksay.
1:10 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I think I've said a number of times that I can't support this motion. I don't believe this is the place for us to work out the failures of the grievance system at the Kingston immigration holding centre. I think this result is one of the prime examples of the failure of that system.
I think we've covered our concerns about that grievance process in our recommendations and our discussion on the report to date. If anybody is going to come to this committee to discuss the circumstances, it should be the supervisors of the people who work there, not the individuals themselves. I just think this is the wrong place to do that work, and I can't support the motion on that basis.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I'm agreeing with the basic proposition by Mr. Siksay but for different reasons.
First of all, I'd like to make the point in terms of the committee report. If it's decided by this committee that we want to have the five guards here, and it's obviously the right of the committee to do that, I don't think the report should go forward until we've heard all of the evidence and all of the issues before we write the report. I mean, you can't submit a report and cut it off. I think if we've done it as one parcel it should stay as one parcel. I don't think we should have the report go until all of the evidence is in. That's the first point.
The second point, and I did have some concern, is that there were some general allegations made but nothing specific in a letter that referred to I think provincial and federal issues, and a sub-explanation of that was to be in the report, which I expect will be there when we see the report. I didn't feel that would warrant calling additional witnesses. If there were specific allegations of mistreatment by a particular guard to a particular prisoner, then that might be another matter. But I don't see that we have that in the report, or at least it wasn't in the report I've read.
I don't see that there's any basis at this stage for calling these guards. In part we're more interested in the process, and we've heard evidence on that. So I would be opposing it.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I would like to thank Mr. Komarnicki for what he is saying. Unfortunately, he was not with us the second time around when we went to Kingston. You were, Mr. Chair, and certainly other members of this committee, and they can remember and testify to the fact that allegations were made verbally and the five guards were named. So in that spirit, from what Mr. Komarnicki is saying, although he's not saying it in writing, certainly if he asks the clerk who was with us there, these allegations were made.
So I would urge him to reconsider and let's not play two sides here.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
It should be pointed out as well that this particular instance is not in our report.
I've heard from everyone who wishes to be heard on this issue. I would call for the question.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
1:15 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee
For a recorded vote I would go through the names of each member. It's just a formality.
(Motion negatived: nays 9; yeas 2)
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
There's no other business. You all know about tomorrow's committee meeting, and a steering committee meeting will be held afterwards.
The meeting is adjourned.