Evidence of meeting #43 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rahim Jaffer Conservative Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I don't have a problem with this motion, now that it's been amended and clarified. My concerns are with two things. One is that we've already asked the minister to come for the main estimates. Do we have a date on that yet?
12:50 p.m.
A voice
That's a good question.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rahim Jaffer Conservative Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay.
The second thing is that I don't know if this motion is necessary. Although I agree with it, I don't think it's necessary, because one of the things I would say is that once we do secure a date for the minister, for the main estimates, I don't know if we'll be able to get the minister once again to be able to deal with this motion. I would support Mr. Karygiannis' taking some time when the minister is here. Or we can even let the minister know that the main estimates will be the main focus, but then--
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
The main estimates are quite wide-ranging anyway. You can bring up--
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rahim Jaffer Conservative Edmonton Strathcona, AB
What I wanted to ask is if we only get one date for the minister, we should incorporate this motion so that she's prepared for the estimates and what Mr. Karygiannis wants.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
I'll go back to Mr. Karygiannis before going to Madam Faille and Mr. Siksay.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I appreciate the fact that the minister has a busy schedule, and I appreciate the fact that her officials also have a very busy schedule. One of the things, however, that I find very distasteful is that they're coming in here, and they know fairly well what we're going to ask them--I sent a fax to the minister regarding advertising, and the minister was pre-warned as to what was going to happen--and the minister and her officials...I won't say “the minister” because the minister is only listening to her officials, but her officials turn around and say, point blank, to this committee, on television, watched throughout the world or throughout Canada, that they're advertising. That flies in the face of this committee and certainly its importance.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Just for clarification purposes, would it be the intent to bring the minister, deputy minister, and officials just to deal with that one issue?
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
If the minister can't come, certainly we can bring the deputy minister, and the deputy minister can speak on behalf of.... We would also hear what their plans are.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Could we settle the case by simply sending a press release in which we would issue the letter, and by mentioning Monday, when our hearings will be broadcasted, that a notice of correction of statements made during the hearings was issued?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you, Madam Faille.
We have Mr. Siksay.
No? Okay.
Mr. Telegdi.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Yes, and I think we could also mention this point when we're in televised hearings on Monday.
The other thing is I think it's important for us to serve notice to the officials that they cannot come before committee and bamboozle us with misinformation and do it with impunity. I hate to say that this has happened over time. Rahim and Nina, and anybody who has sat around this table for any period of time knows that has occurred. I think it's important that the officials understand that when they come to this committee, they're supposed to be here to provide us with the facts and certainly not to bamboozle us. I've seen it so often on different issues: they take something that a committee member tries to do, and in the case of provision of sureties, they come in and twist and politicize an issue that was never meant to be treated in such fashion. So it will do well for us in the long term to have the department understand that they cannot do that in this committee and get away with it.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
After I call on Mr. Karygiannis, we will call for a vote on the motion.
First of all, I'll go to Mr. Karygiannis.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Let's hear from Mr. Komarnicki. I'll give my turn to Mr. Komarnicki.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I think Ms. Faille has indicated a way of addressing the issue, if you want to, without having to involve a whole lot of testimony, which we've already heard. That may be where the committee wants to go.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
But I just want to make it clear that what occurred here and what's indicated by the letter is that an error was made and is being corrected. I don't think it would be fair to categorize the statement that was made by the deputy minister as being made with impunity. I don't think it was.
I think it is important that statements be correct. But I also think it's important that if the officials find that they have misstated or provided information that isn't correct, they do what was in fact done here: correct it, and correct it on the record. I don't think anything was done with impunity. I wouldn't have gathered that from the facts that we saw, both in the committee that I was in and also the letter that brings it forward. I think it's good to bring the letter forward to correct the wrong impression. I just want to state that.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
If I could ask the following from the committee members, it could be a little bit unusual.
Maybe we can put this off until Monday. The department, under Mr. Komarnicki's question, or leadership, can certainly come up with a press release. We can look at this press release, and if this press release is not something we are all in favour of, then--
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
--we can bring this again on Monday. Here's an opportunity for the department to say, look, there was an error that was presented and this is what we intend to do. We need to somehow advertise, and I hope Mr. Komarnicki....
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That sounds like a very good compromise.
I have to go to Madam Faille.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I would like to simply add this. When I asked this question during the Committee hearings, I had to ask it again and again. As a former employee of the Department, I know for a fact that this information was not available. I asked if they were positive about what they were saying, and the answer was yes. So, I would think that the compromise suggested by Mr. Karygiannis is apropos. The Department must announce its view.