Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 22nd, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Ms. Faille.

Mr. Siksay, Mr. Karygiannis, and Mr. Telegdi.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Chair, given the fact that this bill was so spectacularly simple in its intent and content, to dedicate more time to it.... We can't fiddle much with it, because the scope of the bill is to implement the current law. We can't talk about how else to do it. All it says is implement the law that's currently on the books. Any amendment outside of that is going to be out of order in any case, I suspect. I don't agree at all that we need to hear other witnesses.

I think we need to hear from the department if there's a problem with the technical aspect of the bill, on whether this bill will cause the implementation of the provisions of IRPA or not, and then we go from there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Certainly, we've been on this issue for quite a long time. We've heard from different witnesses. If there's a compelling reason why we should bring one or two witnesses that Mr. Komarnicki is thinking about, like a specific witness who can add or shed some light, then certainly the committee should be able to hear this particular...if you want to make an argument. If not, I would suggest that we move on, for the simple reason that we've been at this ad nauseam.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to hear the people who have had their hands up.

Mr. Telegdi, you're next.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much.

I just want to assure Mr. Komarnicki that the Honourable Rahim Jaffer is a very able representative on the steering committee.

Certainly, it's one of the good demonstrations of why you should try to keep lawyers out of policy-making and have them work on implementing the policy. It does show that there is a dungeon in the bowels of the department, where they take people in for training and they say that if all else is lost, then delay, delay, delay. This has been delayed, delayed, delayed since 2001. Since I've been on this committee, we probably haven't heard as many witnesses on any issue as we have heard on the RAD.

I think we should implement the law the way it is. We didn't write it. The bureaucrats wrote it and Parliament passed it. To do anything else is really to undermine Parliament. Parliament passed the law, and we have been delaying the will of Parliament for a long period of time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The able Mr. Jaffer is next.

[An hon. member]

Most able.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Most able.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Just on that, on the basis of it being a simple bill, as Mr. Siksay puts it, I think that's always open to interpretation. When you look at the Senate reform bill going through the Liberal Senate right now, it's two paragraphs long and it's been over ten months that they've been studying that bill.

I don't think it's necessarily that I'm disagreeing with him that we couldn't look at this and expedite the bill. I think there's goodwill to do that. But on Mr. Karygiannis' point, I think it's incumbent on Mr. Komarnicki or anyone else that if there is a reason that they suggest there be one or two witnesses....

I'm not saying anyone would agree to drag this out. I did raise that during the steering committee. We were going to go through this even without getting officials, and then we said we should have officials. I said there might be one or two other witnesses who might come to mind and that we shouldn't restrict it. I'm not saying to drag it out, but I did agree that we should try to expedite it. Now I think the onus is on anyone on this committee. If they do say there's someone urgent from whom they think we should hear, I don't think I would say no to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I'm just curious. Do you have a list of people? Besides the officials, who do you have in mind?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I actually do have somebody in mind, just to address what—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Is it my turn? It isn't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It's not your turn, but if Mr. Alghabra is asking you the question, do you want to answer it before I move on to the next one?

[An hon. member]

Could we hear the witnesses Mr. Komarnicki is proposing?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Only if you allow me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Please go ahead.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I appreciate that Mr. Rahim Jaffer ably represents the steering committee, but the reason you bring it back to the whole committee is so that it can have some input.

The particular person I had in mind was actually the IRB acting chair, who would be acting, albeit, in replacing Mr. Fleury, who was here—

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Are you sure you want to bring him in?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

We might want to hear from him, so that's one potential person.

I thought another person might be a professor who deals with refugee issues, and that would be it.

You make a fair point, but I think it's not unreasonable to call a witness, and someone who would be affected by our decision in a practical way. If there's going to be an immediate implementation, it would be his office that would be instrumental in the implementation, would it not?

So if you're agreeable to having him come forward, we'll have a look at that.

[Some hon. members]

Sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I sense that an agreement has been reached on that. Is there any need to pursue it further?