Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 29th, 2007

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

It is because you are alluding to...

[Malcolm Brown]

I understand the question.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

You allude to people who are qualified and experienced and who make serious decisions on refugee files. There is no appeal on the merits of a claim.

[Malcolm Brown]

I understand.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

All right.

[Malcolm Brown]

This issue was raised in December, and we gave a clear answer. We said that the people who make these decisions had the necessary qualifications. Micheline could perhaps give you some more details, but in my opinion,

the decision-makers do have the capacity, and frankly I think the quality of those decisions stands up to scrutiny.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

When people apply for humanitarian reasons, is it true that they are not removed before a decision is made? Can you confirm that for me?

[Malcolm Brown]

I repeat clearly that the people doing this work have the necessary qualifications to do the work appropriately. We should not challenge the quality of their decisions.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I know, but you are not answering my question.

[Malcolm Brown]

No, no.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

People can be deported before a decision has been made for humanitarian reasons. Some people no doubt have the necessary experience and qualifications. The fact remains that more than half of these people have less than two years' experience.

Can you confirm for us that none of your officials can make any mistakes on a file?

[Malcolm Brown]

I don't think any of us can make that commitment.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

You will therefore understand that an appeal section is necessary for appeals on the merits of claims.

[Malcolm Brown]

But if that's the standard to which we're being asked to ascribe, I don't know any human activity that can meet that standard. I understand the objective, believe me. In my job I've been to refugee camps and I see the consequences of decisions. But I honestly don't know, in a human endeavour, how you can strive to produce an undertaking that has no mistakes. If there's a method, we'd like to hear it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

[Malcolm Brown]

Believe me, we'd like to hear it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Brown. I have to cut it off there at 7:17 and go to Mr. Siksay

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Brown, I wonder if you can tell me if there are other aspects or sections of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that haven't been implemented, or is it just the refugee appeal division?

[Malcolm Brown]

I believe it's just the refugee appeal division, but I'd like to reserve and, if I'm wrong, inform the committee right away. I don't think there's anything significant that's not been proclaimed.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

And Ms. Aucoin and Mr. Stevens aren't aware of any aspect of it that...?

[Micheline Aucoin, Director General, Refugees Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I'm not aware of anything.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Maybe you can help me in terms of the coming into force and transitional provisions of IRPA. Those are still effective. The coming into effect of IRPA can still be determined by the Governor in Council, a date according to the Governor in Council, so that the government still does have the option of implementing the RAD and determining the date when the RAD could be implemented under the provisions of IRPA as it was originally passed?

[Malcolm Brown]

Yes, if all the provisions are part of it.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

The government could still, if they chose to take that initiative, determine the timetable and have the authority to do that, given the legislation that was already passed.

[Malcolm Brown]

In terms of IRPA, yes.