Evidence of meeting #50 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I don't know. I'm not using those words, and I did not have a difference of opinion with any minister.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Fleury, you said that we'll see appointments come better. Does that mean—
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
No. I'm saying that with the new regime they're going to put in place, with a new chair, there may be a confidence level that more appointments will follow. I don't know.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Are you stating, sir, that the minister had no confidence level in you?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
You're going to have to ask the minister.
Liberal
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
It's not a matter of confidence. I'm not saying what you're trying to do. I'm saying that my decision to leave the government at this time was a combination of many factors. I had to look at what was good for my boys. To me, my staying was not good for my boys at this stage.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
If I were to put a percentage on that, sir, how much was your decision affected by what was going on at the minister's office: 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, or 60% of your saying, enough is enough and I'm walking out?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Have you ever tried to quantify a gut feeling?
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Yes, many times, and in this case I would say that the minister's office had a lot to do with it.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Well, I don't conclude that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you.
I told Mr. Telegdi he was next, but we have time for two more questioners, and that is all I have on the list here. Two more people have indicated that they want to speak. That will take us up to about a quarter to the hour, when we can consider the proposal that the clerk has before us.
Mr. Siksay, I am sure you have a couple of questions. Then we'll go to Mr. Telegdi.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm glad to hear about your blood pressure, Mr. Fleury. I am wondering whether we shouldn't be monitoring Mr. Goodman carefully, though, at this point, given his new responsibilities.
Mr. Fleury, when the advisory panel resigned en masse on February 27, they wrote you a letter, and I suspect you knew that was in the works. Had you tried to dissuade them from taking that action prior to their resignations?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I'm glad you raised this.
Remember, I was the one who selected all of the people on that panel. Other than general terms of references that are all available to everyone, we didn't really have a way of working together, as to how we would work and so on. I was of the view that the panel should not be chaired by me, because it was too much power in one role. I was the one who was going to do the recommendation to the minister, and to chair the panel was a lot of—So at the first meeting of the panel, I left the meeting and they elected a chair, Madame Plante, a human resources person.
The way the panel worked was up to them. I was there; I observed; I could speak, if I wanted to, to a candidate's name.
The other thing you should be aware of about this panel is that they swore an oath that if they knew a candidate or if a candidate had made representations to them, they would declare it and stand out. No candidate ever tried to approach them, to my knowledge, and when they knew a candidate personally, they did not discuss the candidate.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Since we have some more hands that have gone up, the chair has a certain amount of discretion, according to the motion we're operating under.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Mr. Chair, may I—? I didn't answer his question; I went too far in explaining.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I knew there was displeasure toward the end. They had seen a version of the Harrison report. I purposely went out of the room to let them deliberate. I did not take part in any drafting of letters. I found out from Madame Plante that they were going to resign.
So their conduct was independent of me.
Conservative
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Fleury, do you disagree with anything they wrote in their letter of resignation, in terms of their analysis of the situation they faced?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I think the analysis of how they saw their role is well reflected.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you, Mr. Fleury.
Mr. Telegdi. And now I have Mr. Jaffer and Mr. Wilson also.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I just want to make sure that the record shows that when the parliamentary secretary asked Mr. Fleury if he was appointed by the Liberal government, he said yes, and you, Mr. Chair, said, “Good choice”.