Evidence of meeting #50 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Fleury, let me thank you for coming today. It means a lot to a lot of people, not only here but throughout the country.
I always look at how it affects people's lives. For somebody who sponsors a spouse, if that spousal sponsorship fails, then they have the option to go to IRB and have their case heard. Usually, in the last four or five years, from the time the individual puts in the request for a hearing until the hearing is heard, or goes through ADR or to a member's panel, it is anywhere between six months to a year. Is that correct?
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
We were advised last week by the lawyers association that the length of time before an individual has an opportunity to go in front of an IRB member to present his case about the spouse who is abroad has climbed up to three years.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I'll tell you what I saw before I left on March 16. On March 16 when I left, it wasn't taking three years.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I think it was about a year. Our average had increased to about a year.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
When this government came in, there were about five vacancies. Right now, we are advised that it's climbing up to 50-plus. At the time you left, was it 50 or 60?
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
We've got to be careful how we define vacancies. To me, when a person is up for renewal, if they've been there for three years and the next renewal possible is five years, that is a vacancy. If they're not appointed, they're not appointed. So you have that kind of vacancy. Vacancies are created when people have reached their 10th year and we need to replace them with new recruits.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
So in your estimation, Mr. Fleury, how many vacancies would you say there were when you left the board?
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
At my last count, when I left the board, in Toronto alone I think we were at about 34% vacancy. Because Toronto is 60%.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
That's 60% of the hub. So practically, one-third of the positions on the board were vacant.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
When I left the board, yes.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
So if it used to take one year for a hearing when a spouse—then I would assume that now that you have one-third fewer members, it would multiply the time by at least twice.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes, but you have to be careful to weigh the fact that the number of appeals has also increased. So there's the question of your vacancies, but it's that your workload referral is higher. Our appeals were increasing in the last three or—
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Therefore, should appeals be increasing, not only do we need the members who are up for renewal, but we also need additional members to meet that additional appeal demand.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes, and you need the budget.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Fair enough.
The board also looks at parental sponsorships, and it also looks at people the government has deemed to be criminals who need to be taken away from Canada—somebody who comes to Canada and is an immigrant and commits a crime, or somebody who comes to Canada, is a visitor, and commits a heinous crime. There is where the board is looking at removal. Their removal has been pushed back; they cannot be removed, because there are not enough members.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
That's one part. But don't forget, we have another, third tribunal that is staffed, as decision-makers, by public servants. They have deadlines with respect to looking at whether people are going to be released or not. So what you describe is partly true in the terms you described, but in the tribunal where public servants do the decision-making and we're fully staffed, there are no delays.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
What was the role of the minister and the Prime Minister in appointments?
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
It's the government that decides on appointments. It goes to cabinet on the recommendation of the minister and the Prime Minister.
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Were there any roadblocks?
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
From the PMO?
Let me be more specific. To your knowledge, were any appointments made of individuals who were not on the list of candidates recommended to this government? If so, how many? And did they have anything to do with your decision to resign as the chair of the IRB? Were the fingerprints of the Prime Minister's Office all over the appointments that made you resign, sir?
11:35 a.m.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Mr. Chair, can I—?
