Evidence of meeting #50 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Ten seconds?
Conservative
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Let me be quite clear about my leaving. I want to be very clear.
There was never any pressure put on me by the government, the PMO, the Clerk, PCO, anybody. There was never any pressure put on me. I made the decision that it was best for the board, because we weren't getting appointments, regardless of the system; that the board was being penalized and they needed a new chair, and the government needed to appoint a new chair.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Fleury, did you resign because what was happening was not ethical?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
No, there was nothing about ethics. It has to do with me. I felt that I was getting to be a liability to the board and that it needed a new chair. I was not successful in getting the appointments.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
We're going into six and a half minutes on a five-minute round. Thank you both.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That's okay, Mr. Fleury. You can finish up like that whenever you want. It's just that I get complaints sometimes that some members are getting more time than others. But if the witness wants to finish up, I'm sure committee members would be more than supportive of that.
Mr. Gravel or—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
The process we've been using is seven-minute rounds, and we go around the table; then five-minute rounds, and we go around the table. Now, we have a new proposal to put before the committee, and now is as good a time as any to say that if we could take 15 minutes, maybe, before one o'clock to go over the proposal that's been put before the committee, we can do that. But the process we've been using is to go to seven-minute rounds and then five-minute rounds, in accordance with the motion that was put forth on May 15 by Mr. Wilson, I believe.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, that thing is open quite a bit to interpretation, but my understanding of it is very simple. Mr. Komarnicki and I talked about it. You have the first seven-minute round, then you have five-minute rounds until everybody gets to speak, at which time we start a new round. That is in the motion, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
I think we have three different proposals before the committee, one made on May 8, one made May 15, and now this new one. So I think it would be beneficial for the committee if we could agree to sit and talk about exactly that, maybe 15 minutes before one o'clock. I believe this is going to take 15 to 20 minutes to talk about. I would hate to interrupt proceedings right now.
If you'll agree, we'll go on to—
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I'd like to make a point, if I could, on the point raised by Mr. Telegdi. I think it's important.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
You can't unless we're going to go into a full discussion of the motion, which we can do 15 minutes before one o'clock, which would be a most appropriate time to do that.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I know, but it's not an issue of discussing the motion. I think Andrew has hit the nail on the head. There are two motions before us, already existing, and somebody has to interpret those motions, and the interpretation you're using I don't think is necessarily correct with respect to what the motion actually reads.
The motion that reads—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
No, no. I'm not going to entertain that right now, because at previous committee meetings we've been going around the table a second time on the five-minute round.
There is all kinds of confusion about that. So unless you want to cut into the time we have to examine witnesses—
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Chair, I don't think this is the time or the place to argue this. We have a witness in front of us. Let's pay courtesy to him. Let's move on, and then when this is over, we can discuss it.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I'm sure the parliamentary secretary will give consideration to Mr. Fleury for him to be heard.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
That's fair enough. We haven't always proceeded in this fashion. In fact, we've proceeded in a different fashion.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Order, please. I'm going to Mr. Gravel.
Is it agreed, by the way, before I go to Mr. Gravel or Madame Faille, that we will take 15 or 20 minutes before one o'clock? I think Mr. Fleury could very well be finished up by then. We'll make a determination if we need to change that when we get close to one o'clock. But my sense of it is that we could very well finish up with Mr. Fleury within an hour, which would be at quarter to one. At that time, we'll get this motion cleared up once and for all, because I'm running into it meeting after meeting.
We have three different motions as to the speaking order, and we're not making any progress getting some clarity on it. I'm determined that we're going to get clarity on that motion once and for all. So it will be at 15 minutes before one o'clock. Okay?
Go ahead, Mr. Gravel.
Raymond Gravel Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Fleury, thank you for being here.
I wasn't here when you came the first time, but what efforts did you make to inform Minister Solberg, and subsequently Minister Finley, of the shortage of Board members, and to remedy the problem?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I believe that, in my last testimony—the date of which I don't remember—I was asked how many times I had met with Minister Solberg. I believe I answered at the time that I had done so eight or nine times.
Mr. Solberg was always open and available to talk about the appointments question.
Bloc
Raymond Gravel Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Fleury, if the situation were not what it is, would you still be there?